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novice

English translation: ship's apprentice

GLOSSARY ENTRY (DERIVED FROM QUESTION BELOW)
French term or phrase:novice
English translation:ship's apprentice
Entered by: Sandra Petch

14:21 Apr 24, 2008
French to English translations [PRO]
Ships, Sailing, Maritime
French term or phrase: novice
Hi

This 74-gun ship has "mousses et novices" - the "mousses" I believe are the ship's boys. Could the "novices" be apprentices of some kind?

As always, many thanks!
Sandra Petch
Local time: 08:57
for info
Explanation:
NOVICE
B. MAR. Apprenti matelot, de seize à dix-huit ans.

"Yves était alors un enfant de seize ans. On me dit qu'il allait passer novice après deux années de mousse" (LOTI, Mon frère Yves, 1883, p.41).

"C'est peut-être un usage dans la marine de brimer les novices. Mais je voyage comme passager et j'estime avoir droit à des égards" (AUDIBERTI, Quoat, 1946, 1er tabl., p.22).


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Note added at 42 mins (2008-04-24 15:04:28 GMT)
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Source: TLF

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Note added at 1 hr (2008-04-24 16:07:48 GMT)
--------------------------------------------------

some dictionaries give 'apprentice' for 'mousse' as well as 'boy' and 'cabin boy' (mousse de chambre), in your place I would translate thus:
mousse = ship's boy
novice = ship's apprentice

--------------------------------------------------
Note added at 1 hr (2008-04-24 16:14:29 GMT)
--------------------------------------------------

yes, 'apprentice seamen' rather than 'apprentice officer', the latter was called a 'midshipman' (aspirant)
Selected response from:

Graham macLachlan
Local time: 08:57
Grading comment
Thank you very much.
4 KudoZ points were awarded for this answer



Summary of answers provided
3 +3apprentice under legal age
Drmanu49
5 +1for info
Graham macLachlan


Discussion entries: 4





  

Answers


4 mins   confidence: Answerer confidence 3/5Answerer confidence 3/5 peer agreement (net): +3
apprentice under legal age


Explanation:
Sélection de livres consacrés aux métiers de la marine marchande. ... pont et comme novice tout mineur âgé de plus de seize ans et de moins de dix-huit ans, ...
www.frenchlines.com/metiers/bibliographie.php - 18k -

soit il vient d'une école d'apprentissage maritime ou assimilée, Marine Marchande (il habite Rouen), ou est embarqué comme novice, Marine Marchande toujours ...
pages14-18.mesdiscussions.net/.../marine-1914-1918/navigation-compagnie-mascara-sujet_491_1.htm - 91k

Drmanu49
France
Local time: 08:57
Specializes in field
Native speaker of: Native in EnglishEnglish, Native in FrenchFrench
PRO pts in category: 174

Peer comments on this answer (and responses from the answerer)
agree  ormiston: 'apprentice seamen' existsGRAFT AT NAVAL STATION.; Apprentice Seamen Forced to Pay $5 Each ...- [ Traduire cette page ]Apprentice Seamen Forced to Pay $5 Each for Sea Detail. NORFOLK, Va., July 3. -A naval court of inquiry has concluded its hearing InI th
10 mins
  -> Thank you.
agree  Miranda Joubioux (X)
12 mins
  -> Thank you Miranda.
agree  Graham macLachlan
37 mins
  -> Thank you Graham
Login to enter a peer comment (or grade)

42 mins   confidence: Answerer confidence 5/5 peer agreement (net): +1
for info


Explanation:
NOVICE
B. MAR. Apprenti matelot, de seize à dix-huit ans.

"Yves était alors un enfant de seize ans. On me dit qu'il allait passer novice après deux années de mousse" (LOTI, Mon frère Yves, 1883, p.41).

"C'est peut-être un usage dans la marine de brimer les novices. Mais je voyage comme passager et j'estime avoir droit à des égards" (AUDIBERTI, Quoat, 1946, 1er tabl., p.22).


--------------------------------------------------
Note added at 42 mins (2008-04-24 15:04:28 GMT)
--------------------------------------------------

Source: TLF

--------------------------------------------------
Note added at 1 hr (2008-04-24 16:07:48 GMT)
--------------------------------------------------

some dictionaries give 'apprentice' for 'mousse' as well as 'boy' and 'cabin boy' (mousse de chambre), in your place I would translate thus:
mousse = ship's boy
novice = ship's apprentice

--------------------------------------------------
Note added at 1 hr (2008-04-24 16:14:29 GMT)
--------------------------------------------------

yes, 'apprentice seamen' rather than 'apprentice officer', the latter was called a 'midshipman' (aspirant)

Graham macLachlan
Local time: 08:57
Specializes in field
Native speaker of: Native in EnglishEnglish
PRO pts in category: 352
Grading comment
Thank you very much.
Notes to answerer
Asker: So an apprentice seaman?


Peer comments on this answer (and responses from the answerer)
agree  ormiston: I mean I agree with apprentice seaman don't see why they have to be minors given this quote
38 mins
  -> ah well, thanks anyway :-)
Login to enter a peer comment (or grade)



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