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les sciences des moeurs

English translation: moral science

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GLOSSARY ENTRY (DERIVED FROM QUESTION BELOW)

French term or phrase:	les sciences des moeurs
English translation:	moral science
Entered by:	Chris Hall

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13:06 Jan 18, 2010

French to English translations [PRO]
Social Sciences - Social Science, Sociology, Ethics, etc.

French term or phrase: les sciences des moeurs

"Cette « médiation » par des « relais » avait déjà été théorisée par Durkheim au XIXe siècle. Dans son étude sur les sociétés et ***les sciences des mœurs***, il établissait la primauté des faits sociaux sur la psychologie individuelle. Pour lui, les objets ne tirent pas leur force d’eux-mêmes mais du groupe dont ils sont le symbole."

I'm tempted to use "mores" here, given that "sociétés" immediately precedes it, to avoid repetition.

Conor McAuley KudoZ activity Questions: 986 (14 open) (1 without valid answers) (71 closed without grading) Answers: 1863 France
Local time: 23:46

moral science

Explanation:
Source: http://www.csuchico.edu/~curbanowicz/syllabi/SYL_296-F99.htm...

The facts which disconcert us surely obey laws, but what are they? We cannot guess. In one sense, social reality presents more difficulties to scientific research than does the physical world, because, even supposing that static laws are known, the state of society at any given moment is never intelligible except through the prior evolution of which it is the present outcome; and how rare are the cases where the historical knowledge of this past is so complete and so certain that nothing indispensable is missing! [stress added]" Lucien Lévy-Bruhl [1857-1939], 1903, La Morale et les **sciences des moeurs** [Ethics and **Moral Science**], in Lucien Lévy-Bruhl (1972) by Jean Cazeneuve, pages 24-25.

Selected response from:

Chris Hall
United Kingdom
Local time: 22:46

Grading comment

Thanks to all for your contributions to the debate.
4 KudoZ points were awarded for this answer

Summary of answers provided

4 +5

the science of morality

Gilla Evans

4 +4

moral science

Chris Hall

4 +1

behavio(u)ral sciences

Sébastien GUITTENY

mores

rkillings

3 +1

social science

Sandra Petch

2 +1

the science of morals

Jonathan MacKerron

4 -1

either or

xxxBourth

moral science

Emma McKenzie

Answers

5 mins confidence:

peer agreement (net): +4

moral science

Chris Hall
United Kingdom
Local time: 22:46
Native speaker of:

English
PRO pts in category: 4

Grading comment

Thanks to all for your contributions to the debate.

5 mins confidence:

peer agreement (net): +1

behavio(u)ral sciences

Explanation:
Les sciences comportementales (du comportement)

Reference: http://www.lexilogos.com
Reference: http://www.wikipedia.org

Sébastien GUITTENY
France
Local time: 23:46
Native speaker of:

French

5 mins confidence:

peer agreement (net): +1

the science of morals

Explanation:
certainly gets its share of credible googles

--------------------------------------------------
Note added at 11 mins (2010-01-18 13:18:13 GMT)
--------------------------------------------------

"science of morality" gets lots of googles in association with Durkheim

--------------------------------------------------
Note added at 14 mins (2010-01-18 13:21:51 GMT)
--------------------------------------------------

endless google hits for

"science of morals" durkheim

Jonathan MacKerron
Local time: 23:46
Native speaker of:

English
PRO pts in category: 6

11 mins confidence:

peer agreement (net): +1

social science

Explanation:
Wasn't Durkheim an early sociologist?

--------------------------------------------------
Note added at 14 mins (2010-01-18 13:21:51 GMT)
--------------------------------------------------

http://www.amazon.com/Durkheim-Makers-Modern-Social-Science/...
Emile Durkheim (Makers of Modern Social Science.)

http://hirr.hartsem.edu/ency/durkheim.htm
(1858-1917) French sociologist, and guiding figure in the influential French or "Durkheim school" of sociology.

Sandra Petch
Local time: 23:46
Native speaker of:

English
PRO pts in category: 8

16 mins confidence:

peer agreement (net): +5

the science of morality

Explanation:
This is how Durkheim's work is usually referred to

see for instance:

http://www.lotsofessays.com/viewpaper/1681714.html

--------------------------------------------------
Note added at 18 mins (2010-01-18 13:25:22 GMT)
--------------------------------------------------

Here are a few more references, confirming the same expression:

http://www.jstor.org/pss/2063011

http://durkheim.uchicago.edu/Biography.html

http://www.springerlink.com/content/wl0753332n3n4372/

Gilla Evans
Local time: 22:46
Works in field
Native speaker of:

English
PRO pts in category: 12

43 mins confidence:

moral science

Explanation:
This seems to be a very specific concept and not one that can be given a broad umbrella equivalent such as behavioural or social science. Since it is Durkheim's own term, I would opt for "Moral science", but any of the other combinations would also be acceptable as more of a description of his thinking. I still prefer it over the "science of morals" (even though that gets more google hits), as I find it has the connotation of being a widely accepted fact - that teaching morals IS a science. I like the term "Durkheimian Moral Science" found in the paper entitled "Durkheim's Sociological Niche" accessible with the attached link.

Reference: http://www.scribd.com/doc/2279522/Durkheims-Sociological-Nic...

Emma McKenzie
Local time: 07:46
Native speaker of:

English

1 hr confidence:

peer agreement (net): -1

either or

Explanation:
Thorough and wide-ranging examination of the SCIENCE OF MORALS, reviving and defending the tradition of a scientific approach to ethics.
www.questia.com/.../DURKHEIM-morals-and-modernity-by-wwatts...

DURKHEIM WRITES: What reconciles science and morality is the SCIENCE OF MORALITY, for at the same time as it teaches us toi respect moral reality it affords ...
www.lotsofessays.com/viewpaper/1681714.html

re-examination of his SCIENCE OF MORALS, an opportunity that never materialized. Although. DURKHEIM'S SCIENCE OF MORALITY is of utmost ... he also thinks that Durkheim's descriptive SCIENCE OF MORALS is greatly underestimated...
www.jstor.org/stable/2063011
www.jstor.org/stable/2063011

DURKHEIM arrived in Paris with a reputation as a powerful intellect pursuing an aggressively scientific approach to all problems (everything else was mysticism, dilettantism, and irrationalism). His "SCIENCE OF MORALITY" offended philosophers, his "science of religion" offended Catholics, and his appointment to the Sorbonne (which, in the wake of the Dreyfus Affair, appeared not above extra-academic considerations) offended those on the political Right.
http://durkheim.uchicago.edu/Biography.html

The point made, DURKHEIM wants to drive home another. Like any science and its pursuit of knowledge as such, the SCIENCE OF MORALS is "theoretical". ...
books.google.com/books?isbn=185728335X...

No commentators have defended DURKHEIM'S thesis of the SCIENCE OF MORALS as the ... stages on the beginnings of a moral science. Central to Durkheim's moral ...
doi.wiley.com/.../1520-6696(199610)32:4%3C484::AID-JHBS2300320406%3E3.0.CO;...

Educated in France and Germany, DURKHEIM taught social science at the Univ. of Bordeaux .... Thorough and wide-ranging examination of the SCIENCE OF MORALS, ...
www.questia.com › ... › Sociologists and Anthropologists

That said, I haven't Googled the existence of sciences des moeurs and sciences de la moralité to see if we are talking about two different kettles of herring.

--------------------------------------------------
Note added at 5 hrs (2010-01-18 18:08:15 GMT)
--------------------------------------------------

@Chris: If you think about it, and read my post and look where I'm SHOUTING, it just might sink in that I'm pointing out that not only are both said, but that both are said in relation to Durkheim. Nuance!

xxxBourth
Local time: 23:46
Native speaker of:

English
PRO pts in category: 42

5 hrs confidence:

mores

Explanation:
Just skip the 'sciences' bit: "in his study of societies and mores".

Other translators have been tempted to use the Latin term too; cf. ""When mores are sufficient, laws are unnecessary; when mores are insufficient, laws are unenforceable."
— Émile Durkheim"

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Note added at 5 hrs (2010-01-18 18:22:51 GMT)
--------------------------------------------------

Unless you want to get into the evolutionary genetic basis of altruism, who in the Anglosphere ever calls moral philosophy a 'science', these days? And the term Moral Philosophy itself belongs to a century before Durkheim. Just skip it. Let 'study' carry the burden.

Reference: http://www.goodreads.com/author/show/32676._mile_Durkheim

rkillings
United States
Local time: 14:46
Native speaker of:

English
PRO pts in category: 4

Voters for reclassification
as
PRO / non-PRO

Non-PRO (2): Chris Hall, Rob Grayson

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Changes made by editors

Jan 25, 2010 - Changes made by Chris Hall:
Created KOG entry	KudoZ term => KOG term

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