ProZ.com global directory of translation services
 The translation workplace
Ideas
KudoZ home » French to English » Social Science, Sociology, Ethics, etc.

les points de ruptures de sens (entre les deux plans d’expression)

English translation: point at which meaning is lost/ruptured


Login or register (free and only takes a few minutes) to participate in this question.

You will also have access to many other tools and opportunities designed for those who have language-related jobs
(or are passionate about them). Participation is free and the site has a strict confidentiality policy.
GLOSSARY ENTRY (DERIVED FROM QUESTION BELOW)
French term or phrase: les points de ruptures de sens (entre les deux plans d’expression)
English translation:point at which meaning is lost/ruptured
Entered by: Jocelyne S
Options:
- Contribute to this entry
- Include in personal glossary

08:34 Apr 22, 2011
French to English translations [PRO]
Social Sciences - Social Science, Sociology, Ethics, etc. / analyse semiologique
French term or phrase: les points de ruptures de sens (entre les deux plans d’expression)
une analyse semiologique visera à répondre à cet objectif:

Identifier les points d’éventuelles ruptures de sens entre les deux plans d’expression afin de pouvoir en vérifier l’importance et les conséquences d’interprétations potentielles auprès de différentes cibles de cultures différentes

(they are comparing written instructions to equivalent pictograms and seeing if people can understand the pictograms equally well. So the two "plans d’expression " are the written text mode and the visual sign mode. They will test this comprehension degree in different populations in different cultures)

How do you suggest translating this, please?
veratek
France
Local time: 21:02
point at which meaning is lost
Explanation:
I would suggest the "point at which meaning is lost" between the different signifiers/media/modes.

You might find the following useful:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Commutation_test_(semiotics)
Selected response from:

Jocelyne S
France
Local time: 21:02
Grading comment
I thought this worked well. Thank you.
4 KudoZ points were awarded for this answer



Summary of answers provided
4 +2the points at which meaning is ruptured
Helen Shiner
3lapses of meaningEuqinimod
3missing link ( between the two ....)
silvester55
3point at which meaning is lost
Jocelyne S


Discussion entries: 3





  

Answers


25 mins   confidence: Answerer confidence 3/5Answerer confidence 3/5
point at which meaning is lost


Explanation:
I would suggest the "point at which meaning is lost" between the different signifiers/media/modes.

You might find the following useful:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Commutation_test_(semiotics)

Jocelyne S
France
Local time: 21:02
Specializes in field
Native speaker of: Native in EnglishEnglish
PRO pts in category: 47
Grading comment
I thought this worked well. Thank you.
Login to enter a peer comment (or grade)

1 hr   confidence: Answerer confidence 3/5Answerer confidence 3/5
missing link ( between the two ....)


Explanation:
.

--------------------------------------------------
Note added at 1 hr (2011-04-22 09:38:25 GMT)
--------------------------------------------------

DEVELOPING SECOND AND FOREIGN LANGUAGE READING FLUENCY AND
ITS EFFECT ON COMPREHENSION: A MISSING LINK http://www.readingmatrix.com/articles/taguchi_gorsuch_sasamo...

--------------------------------------------------
Note added at 1 hr (2011-04-22 09:39:31 GMT)
--------------------------------------------------

In a larger scope, Pikulski and Chard (2005) have stated that fluency is the “missing link” between decoding words and reading comprehension. A common problem with learning readers is that they struggle to make the jump between reading words in a........
http://msit.gsu.edu/Readingconsortium/Literacylens/html/Tidw...

--------------------------------------------------
Note added at 1 hr (2011-04-22 09:40:15 GMT)
--------------------------------------------------

Consensus is building among researchers that vocabulary is the missing link in reading education. Many children enter school 3,000-4,000 words behind their peers. By fifth grade this vocabulary gap has turned into a five-year deficit in reading comprehension.

silvester55
Local time: 22:02
Native speaker of: Native in FrenchFrench
Login to enter a peer comment (or grade)

54 mins   confidence: Answerer confidence 4/5Answerer confidence 4/5 peer agreement (net): +2
the points at which meaning is ruptured


Explanation:
I would use 'rupture' here - it is often used in a semiological context and certainly in visual analysis. Something occurs or is indicated which causes meaning to be other than straightforward, or the meaning is somehow undermined or brought into question.

http://books.google.co.uk/books?id=2Zw_21gKz1QC&pg=PA39&lpg=...

http://books.google.co.uk/books?id=E5zCts8ax58C&pg=PA59&lpg=...

--------------------------------------------------
Note added at 56 mins (2011-04-22 09:31:02 GMT)
--------------------------------------------------

The original meaning is not likely to be lost, as such, it probably becomes multi-layered or subverted, but not lost. Much of the irony in post-modern art relates to the knowing nod to supposed simpler, earlier meanings, whilst at the same time complicating them.

--------------------------------------------------
Note added at 9 hrs (2011-04-22 17:50:19 GMT)
--------------------------------------------------

Michel Foucault (1926-1984) always insisted that he was not a poststructuralist critic but rather a genealogist. But his analysis of discourse owes a lot to Saussure's insights about the construction of meaning. Foucault shows how discourses regulate what can be said, what can be thought, and what is considered true or correct. So the pre-modern medical theories based on bodily humors constructed a particular understanding of the body, and within that discourse, certain things were true and false. However, there were many other propositions that were neither true nor false but fell outside the discursive system altogether. Anyone who tried to think outside the system would not have been respected or accorded a voice in the conversation about bodies. Discourse is thus the medium through which power is expressed and people and practices are governed; academic disciplines discipline. Foucault also argued that "the history of thought" is a misnomer, as it implied a continuous evoltion of ideas. Rather, he used the terms genealogy or archeology of knowledge, focusing on the ruptures or breaks between one era's discourse and another's.

Thomas Kuhn's (1922-1996) The Structure of Scientific Revolutions (1962; he wrote it as a grad student) makes the kind of argument about scientific thought that Foucault made about discourses in general (and in particular). Kuhn used the term paradigm to describe the foucauldian discourses that regulate scientific thought. For Kuhn, science is not an evolutionary, progressive march towards greater and greater truth but rather "a series of peaceful interludes punctuated by intellectually violent revolutions" (Foucault's "ruptures") in which one point of view is replaced by another. (Think of the difference between the Ptolomaic and Newtonian worlds.) So science's claim to truth is highly questionable and even ephemeral; since the truths of past science have passed away, we can be certain that what science claims today will itself one day be superseded by the claims of a new paradigm, which will itself one day be superseded . . . .

http://www.ic.arizona.edu/ic/mcbride/theory/305struct.htm

Helen Shiner
United Kingdom
Local time: 20:02
Works in field
Native speaker of: Native in EnglishEnglish
PRO pts in category: 11

Peer comments on this answer (and responses from the answerer)
agree  Jim Tucker: "rupture points"
35 mins
  -> Thanks, Jim

agree  gallagy2: yeah, like this
2 hrs
  -> Thanks, gallagy2
Login to enter a peer comment (or grade)

11 hrs   confidence: Answerer confidence 3/5Answerer confidence 3/5
lapses of meaning


Explanation:
See for instance http://www.soc.hawaii.edu/leonj/499s99/yamauchi/semantic.htm

Euqinimod
Local time: 21:02
Works in field
Native speaker of: Native in FrenchFrench
PRO pts in category: 11
Login to enter a peer comment (or grade)




Return to KudoZ list


Changes made by editors
Apr 25, 2011 - Changes made by Jocelyne S:
Created KOG entryKudoZ term => KOG term


KudoZ™ translation help
The KudoZ network provides a framework for translators and others to assist each other with translations or explanations of terms and short phrases.



See also: