16:21 Oct 20, 2011 

What "very far-removed sideways inferences"?

09:40 Oct 18, 2011 

You are quite right, sorry, I was out of it after 14 hrs straight trying to get the book finished.... on copyright I have to discuss with author again - there are hundreds of quotations and references in various languages, but the issue of the translators' own copyrights if I use translations found on the Net probably would be a problem, he says..... I am trying desperately to only do my part (i.e. translate) but end up being proof-reader, editor and Uncle Tom Cobbley and all.... thanks again anyhow and Bon travail!

21:15 Oct 17, 2011 

Can understand the issue of accessibility to the translation, but there shouldn't be a copyright issue with quotations in a scholarly article unless they are very long (eg. half a page or more), as long as the source is also cited. Nb. I gave a suggestion for hors-de-prix in the subject line of my comment.

11:24 Oct 17, 2011 

You are right, he has been translated but book not accessible online. Also copyright issues mean that I have to translate all quotations that are not in the public domain........ . Would have liked to know your translation for hors-de-prix but too bad, I now have the Italian translation of the phrase and that is clear to me (so yes sillage was with an a, and yes comment was right - but the sentence did not start with the first word I had been given, which complicated matters!)

08:38 Oct 17, 2011 

My main comment on your translation would be that I would not translate "hors-de-prix" as "extravagant gifts". The "universe of extravagant gifts" sounds a bit like a marriage registry!

07:42 Oct 17, 2011 

So does this French extract (the quote is from a French book, the author quoting him DOES know French very well, but does also make a fair no. of typos in all languages, so....) mean something like
'in the wake of the ceremonial gift, the whole universe of extravagant gifts is opened up/unleashed, where what is important (le précieux) is what is given and received in the relation of reciprocal gratitude' ?

Alternative suggestions for both meaning and actual translation much appreciated. Sorry if I'm too dim to understand oblique references..... but I do like jokes :-)

07:36 Oct 17, 2011 

Thanks to all who have contributed discussions and sugggestions, but I confess I am as baffled as before, if not more so. I wonder if some people are taking the Michael?? (in the other lang forums people tend to be to the point and offer usable alternative suggestions.... and not very far-removed sideways inferences...) Perhaps I'm thick but I'll repeat what I have understood so far
1. Silloge could well be a typo for sillage. More context of the surrounding Italian: the whole 'there's no such thing as a gift without strings' thing. Giving a gift creates a debt. Receiver has to 'recognise' debt (reconnaissance above is recognition, not understanding) and to get out of 'debt', has to reciprocate, with an equally valuable gift... putting the other in debt...and so it goes on. Except where one person is way richer and superior and gets kudos from 'ceremonial display' either to show how he despises the plebs or to outdo rival chiefs making similar 'gifts'... So I'll go onto another discussion entry before characters end....

22:29 Oct 16, 2011 

The quote could well be from a source that has already been translated into English.

13:06 Oct 16, 2011 

Agree with Joshua, typo my first thought when reading your question.

00:10 Oct 16, 2011 

the comment clause defines don cérémonial, thus: "For its most highly developed inhabitants, a crucial aspect of existence on the planet Xenon, known to those inhabitants as Earth, Terre, Erde, and a large number of other terms, was what was known as eating, (that is to say) how they regenerated their energy systems by conveying organic matter to a multipurpose organ called the mouth, masticating and ingesting it. Strangely, the mouth also served an audible communication purpose and was one of two organs used to capture gas for breathing, or how they oxygenated their life-fluid system by a rather primitive means.

23:26 Oct 15, 2011 

I think that it makes much more sense with "comme". This translates as "as/since/because", and provides the implication that you are describing. The only difference is that it is not *the way that* it happens that implies the first section, but *the fact that* it happens. The French sentence is not just clumsy, it's very wrong, and has no grammatical meaning.

23:01 Oct 15, 2011 

SillAge is undoubtedly meant (possibly confusion with sillon, abreuvé ou non de sang impur). On the other hand, comment is perfectly OK (though the sentence seems clumsy).
comment le précieux est ce qui est donné et reçu dans la relation de reconnaissance réciproque :
- HOW the precious is what is given and received in a relationship of reciprocal understanding;
--> How what is precious is what is given and received in a spirit of reciprocal understanding
-->how it is what is exchanged in a spirit of mutual understanding that is precious
--> how it is the object of exchange in a spirit of mutual understanding that is precious.
IOW, if you send me a daisy chain to thank me for my contribution to this question, that daisy chain is precious beyond all price to us both - and indeed to the entire translation community - because - and only because - it is the floralisation (not to say "personification") of the altruistic sentiment of respect and - eventually - understanding that exists (or should) between members of the loverly flower-power group of people that we translators are.

21:37 Oct 15, 2011 

After due thought, this does seem to make sense. The logical implication is valid (even if you don't subscribe to the arguments), and "sillage" fits the tone of the text. I think that it's pretty probable that these two words are mistakes. This is perhaps made even more probable by the fact that it is in an Italian text - presumably the person who included the quote didn't actually speak the language/understand what was being said, so was unable to recognize the mistakes.

21:27 Oct 15, 2011 

My first impression is that your quotation is wrong... if you replace "silloge" by "sillage", and "comment" by "comme", everything suddenly makes sense. Maybe it's just too easy to assume that it's wrong though...