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patronyme

English translation: paternal surname

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GLOSSARY ENTRY (DERIVED FROM QUESTION BELOW)
French term or phrase:patronyme
English translation:paternal surname
Entered by: Leveleki
Options:
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14:24 Apr 5, 2004
French to English translations [PRO]
Social Sciences - Social Science, Sociology, Ethics, etc.
French term or phrase: patronyme
- "Ilay" en malgache est un article qui signifie : ce, celui, le, la. C'est aussi le surnom de mon père, puisqu'il est une composante de son patronyme. "Trano lay" signifie : la tente ; "sambo lay" signifie : la voile du bateau.

The dictionary translates with "patronymic", but the French seems to be much more frequent. Is there a more understandable way of explaining it in English?
Timothy Barton
Local time: 07:07
surname / paternal family name / paternal surname
Explanation:
You obviously know exactly what "patronmic" means, so all that I can do is suggest the three alternatives above, although, if it were I, I would be very tempted to translate it by means of the English "patronymic", as this is well-used and known in English. Entirely up to you!

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Note added at 1 hr 39 mins (2004-04-05 16:04:14 GMT)
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I understand that we are talking of \"patronyme\" and NOT \"surnom\", which is a \"Nickname\".
Selected response from:

Leveleki
France
Local time: 08:07
Grading comment
I've gone with your answer, although I still don't think it is a word used very much in English.
1 KudoZ points were awarded for this answer

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Summary of answers provided
5 +2surname / paternal family name / paternal surname
Leveleki
5patronyme
Valentini Mellas
5 -1patronymaqanai
5 -1patronymic surnameJane Lamb-Ruiz
5 -1patronymaqanai
5 -1family name
peekay
5 -1the father's surname
Hacene
3 -1Family name (from his father)Channel


Discussion entries: 1





  

Answers


3 mins   confidence: Answerer confidence 5/5 peer agreement (net): -1
the father's surname


Explanation:
the simplest

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Note added at 6 mins (2004-04-05 14:30:55 GMT)
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http://www.gov.ph/forum/thread.asp?rootID=17998&catID=23
http://www.genoclub.com/billboard/messages/29/159.html?10798...
http://estrada.bz/origin.htm

Hacene
United Kingdom
Local time: 07:07
Native speaker of: Native in FrenchFrench
PRO pts in category: 8

Peer comments on this answer (and responses from the answerer)
disagree  Tom Bishop: Sorry Hacène, but very often it is not derived from the surname
2 hrs
  -> OK. ;-)
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8 mins   confidence: Answerer confidence 3/5Answerer confidence 3/5 peer agreement (net): -1
Family name (from his father)


Explanation:
I guess you will have already used "surname" to translate the beginning of the sentence.

Channel
Native speaker of: Native in FrenchFrench

Peer comments on this answer (and responses from the answerer)
neutral  nothing: Family name is good, but not necessarily as surname as we understand it. It says that Ilay is his father's nickname. Nicknames are often inherited and applied to a whole family (especially in villages) even today, when people has surnames
8 mins

disagree  Tom Bishop: Not necessarily a family name.
2 hrs
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10 mins   confidence: Answerer confidence 5/5 peer agreement (net): -1
family name


Explanation:
check the link below


    Reference: http://www.granddictionnaire.com/btml/fra/r_motclef/index102...
peekay
Canada
Local time: 02:07
Works in field
Native speaker of: Native in EnglishEnglish, Native in FrenchFrench

Peer comments on this answer (and responses from the answerer)
disagree  Tom Bishop: Not necessarily a family name.
2 hrs
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14 mins   confidence: Answerer confidence 5/5
patronyme


Explanation:
patronymicum, fr. neut. of patronymicus of a patronymic, fr. Gk patronymikos, fr. patronymia patronymic, fr. patr- + onyma name — more at name : a name derived from that of the father or a paternal ancestor usu. by the addition of an affix

patronyme = patr <pater + onyme = onoma.
In Greece the patronymo signifies the family name. In villages when you say "I am Nicos" They will ask you for your last name and the patronymo, the family you come from. So you might say "I am nicos, from the Gotiko family" etc.

HTH

Valentini Mellas
Greece
Local time: 09:07
Native speaker of: Greek

Peer comments on this answer (and responses from the answerer)
agree  Vicky Papaprodromou
1 hr
  -> Thanks

disagree  Tom Bishop: "patronyme" is not English
2 hrs
  -> Really? .. I would never have imagined .. As i note it is a greek word. Please read again my notes. Thanks...afterall I am a native Greek speaker.. I should know .. no ? :)
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16 mins   confidence: Answerer confidence 5/5 peer agreement (net): -1
patronym


Explanation:
Une patronyme (patronym en Anglais) est le prénom de son père avec le mot ou particle qui veut dire «fils de». Par example, je m’appelle Avraham Ben-Rahamiël Qanaï. Ben-Rahamiël est mon patronyme car je suis le fils de Rahamiël. En hébreu les patronymes commencent avec Ben, arabe les patronymes commencent ave Ibn ou Bin ou Ben, en berbere ils commence avec Ait, en russe les patronymes se terminent avec -ovitch, en allemand ils se terminent avec -sohn, en armenien ils se terminent aven -ian.

aqanai
Local time: 02:07

Peer comments on this answer (and responses from the answerer)
disagree  Tom Bishop: "patronym" is not English. In English, "patronymic" is both the adjective and the noun.
2 hrs
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1 hr   confidence: Answerer confidence 5/5 peer agreement (net): -1
patronymic surname


Explanation:
because surnames are not necessarily patronymic...they can be matronymic too...

... reserved. Patronymic Surnames. This is a complete list of patronymic surnames from Isabel's account books (late 15th c. Spain). When ...
www.s-gabriel.org/names/juliana/ isabella/patronymic.html - 3k - Cached - Similar pages


Spanish Names from the Late 15th Century: Surnames... The complete list of locative surnames. About 10% of men and 19% of women used simple patronymic surnames. ... The complete list of patronymic surnames. ...
www.s-gabriel.org/names/juliana/isabella/surnames.html - 5k - Cached - Similar pages
[ More results from www.s-gabriel.org ]


Kvensk Non-Patronymic Surnames... Many Kvensk surnames were used for many generations or were farm names taken from the farm they lived on in Sweden or Finland, therefore it is possible that ...
home.powertech.no/arnelu/nonpatron.htm - 10k - Cached - Similar pages


welsh surnamesThe old Welsh patronymic surname system. ... A limited stock of forenames led to a limited stock of surnames; the main patronymic surnames are listed below. ...
www.amlwchdata.co.uk/welsh_surnames.htm - 11k - Cached - Similar pages




Jane Lamb-Ruiz
Works in field
Native speaker of: Native in EnglishEnglish, Native in PortuguesePortuguese
PRO pts in category: 15

Peer comments on this answer (and responses from the answerer)
disagree  Tom Bishop: Patronymics are not necessarily surnames.
1 hr
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1 hr   confidence: Answerer confidence 5/5 peer agreement (net): -1
patronym


Explanation:
Surnom veut dire cognomen ou nickname en amglais. Par example Charles «le grand», Michel «le beau», Marcel «Le blanc», Jean «sans terre», etc. Mais patronyme (patronym ou patronymic en amglais) veut dire «fils de [nom son père]». Je suis Avraham Ben-Rahamiël Qanaï l’éborgné, ça veut dire Avraham (fils de Rahamiël) Qanaï l’éborgné, mon prénom est Avraham, mon patronyme est Ben-Rahamiël, mon non de famille est Qanaï, et je suis surnommé «l’éborgné» à cause de mon oeuil. Mon patronyme n’est pas le surnom de mon père. Mon père est Rahamiël Ben-Yosef Bölekçan, surnommé l’errant à cause de ses déménagements souvents.

aqanai
Local time: 02:07

Peer comments on this answer (and responses from the answerer)
disagree  Tom Bishop: "patronym" is not English. In English, "patronymic" is both the adjective and the noun.
1 hr
  -> Wrong. Both are correct. Patronym is definitely English and is a synonym for patronymic as a noun. Check the O.E.D.
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7 mins   confidence: Answerer confidence 5/5 peer agreement (net): +2
surname / paternal family name / paternal surname


Explanation:
You obviously know exactly what "patronmic" means, so all that I can do is suggest the three alternatives above, although, if it were I, I would be very tempted to translate it by means of the English "patronymic", as this is well-used and known in English. Entirely up to you!

--------------------------------------------------
Note added at 1 hr 39 mins (2004-04-05 16:04:14 GMT)
--------------------------------------------------

I understand that we are talking of \"patronyme\" and NOT \"surnom\", which is a \"Nickname\".

Leveleki
France
Local time: 08:07
Native speaker of: English
PRO pts in category: 1
Grading comment
I've gone with your answer, although I still don't think it is a word used very much in English.

Peer comments on this answer (and responses from the answerer)
agree  Tom Bishop: Agree, just stick with "patronymic". It is not necessarily a surname or family name. It may very well be derived from the first name and used in addition to the surname or family name.
2 hrs

agree  Vicky Papaprodromou
3 hrs
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