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limite élastique

English translation: Little difference

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15:24 Mar 31, 2003
French to English translations [PRO]
Tech/Engineering
French term or phrase: limite élastique
In a patent relating to a Superconducting Conductor with an aluminum-based cryogenic stabilizer: "Afin de pallier ces inconvénients, it est connu ... d'utiliser un stabilisateur cryogenique en un alliage d'alluminium ayant une limité élastique ... d'utiliser un stabilisateur dont le RRR est de 600 environ et la limite élastique a 2% d'allongement es de ... "

This is basically a technical question in response to a client inquiry why I used elastic limit instead of yield strength (their instructions were explicitly to be as literal as possible in translating patents for them). I need to know if in this context it is a [gross] mistake to have used elastic limit instead of yield strength?

Thanks very much! If you have extensive comments please contact me directly at hvadney@mhcable.com

Harold
Thanks very much!

Harold
xxxVadney
English translation:Little difference
Explanation:
There is a very good materials science glossary at the 1st link below.

Here are the two relevant definitions:

Elastic Limit
Greatest stress that can be applied to a material without causing permanent deformation. For metals and other materials that have a significant straight line portion in their stress/strain diagram, elastic limit is approximately equal to proportional limit. For materials that do not exhibit a significant proportional limit, elastic limit is an arbitrary approximation (the apparent elastic limit).


Yield Strength
Indication of maximum stress that can be developed in a material without causing plastic deformation. It is the stress at which a material exhibits a specified permanent deformation and is a practical approximation of elastic limit. Offset yield strength is determined from a stress-strain diagram. It is the stress corresponding to the intersection of the stress-strain curve, and a line parallel to its straight line portion offset by a specified strain. Offset for metals is usually specified as 0.2%, i.e., the intersection of the offset line and the 0-stress axis is at 0.2% strain. Offset for plastics is usually 2%.


Therefore: yield strength is a bit less general - but the two are very often used as synonyms.
Selected response from:

Attila Piróth
France
Local time: 02:19
Grading comment
4 KudoZ points were awarded for this answer

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Summary of answers provided
4 +5elastic limit
Sarah Ponting
5 +3Little difference
Attila Piróth
5elastic limit
Narasimhan Raghavan
4 +1yield strenght
Francis MARC
5either elastic limit or yield pointxxxBourth
4limit of elasticity
Nikki Scott-Despaigne
3elastic limit -yield
1964


  

Answers


4 mins   confidence: Answerer confidence 4/5Answerer confidence 4/5 peer agreement (net): +1
yield strenght


Explanation:
Ref. termium:
Domaine(s)
  – Rheology
  – Metallography
  – Destructive and Non-
destructive Tests (Mat.)
Domaine(s)
  – Rhéologie
  – Métallographie
  – Contrôle destructif et non
destructif (Matér.)
 
yield strength Source

limite d'élasticité
Source FÉM

limite élastique Source
FÉM

résistance au
fléchissement

Francis MARC
Lithuania
Local time: 03:19
Native speaker of: Native in FrenchFrench
PRO pts in pair: 6500

Peer comments on this answer (and responses from the answerer)
agree  Bruce Popp: "yield" in this contex means "gives up", ceases to be elastic
12 mins
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6 mins   confidence: Answerer confidence 4/5Answerer confidence 4/5 peer agreement (net): +5
elastic limit


Explanation:
"The elastic limit is the maximum stress that a material can sustain and still return to its original form"

The Concise Columbia Encyclopedia


--------------------------------------------------
Note added at 2003-03-31 15:34:37 (GMT)
--------------------------------------------------

Elastic limit is as literal as you can get.

Yield strength is slightly different and represents the point at which a material esceeds the elastic limit and will not return to its original shape or length if the stress is removed.
See http://www.engineersedge.com/strength_of_materials.htm



--------------------------------------------------
Note added at 2003-03-31 15:35:43 (GMT)
--------------------------------------------------

sorry, that should read \"exceeds\" and not \"esceeds\"!

Sarah Ponting
Italy
Local time: 02:19
Native speaker of: Native in EnglishEnglish
PRO pts in pair: 114

Peer comments on this answer (and responses from the answerer)
agree  lien: yeah, he should send this one to the client
2 mins
  -> thanks

agree  Bruce Popp: there is very little difference between "elastic limit" and "yield strength"; a client might prefer one for consistent terminology, but that certainly does not make the other incorrect.
15 mins
  -> exactly, Harold should explain this to his client, along with the fact that "elastic limit" is a more literal translation (expressly requested)

agree  bharg
25 mins
  -> thanks

agree  xxxSilLiz
1 hr
  -> thanks

agree  Alexandru Pojoga: it's obviously more literal than "yield strength".
3 hrs
  -> thanks
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7 mins   confidence: Answerer confidence 5/5
elastic limit


Explanation:
See: elastic limit
elastic limit. Click Here. elastic limit: Maximum stress that produces only elastic
deformation. Bestselling Earth Sciences Books on eBay's Half.com! ...
www.webref.org/geology/e/elastic_limit.htm - 15k - Cached - Similar pages

plus 212000 hits


Narasimhan Raghavan
Local time: 05:49
Native speaker of: Tamil
PRO pts in pair: 300
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11 mins   confidence: Answerer confidence 5/5 peer agreement (net): +3
Little difference


Explanation:
There is a very good materials science glossary at the 1st link below.

Here are the two relevant definitions:

Elastic Limit
Greatest stress that can be applied to a material without causing permanent deformation. For metals and other materials that have a significant straight line portion in their stress/strain diagram, elastic limit is approximately equal to proportional limit. For materials that do not exhibit a significant proportional limit, elastic limit is an arbitrary approximation (the apparent elastic limit).


Yield Strength
Indication of maximum stress that can be developed in a material without causing plastic deformation. It is the stress at which a material exhibits a specified permanent deformation and is a practical approximation of elastic limit. Offset yield strength is determined from a stress-strain diagram. It is the stress corresponding to the intersection of the stress-strain curve, and a line parallel to its straight line portion offset by a specified strain. Offset for metals is usually specified as 0.2%, i.e., the intersection of the offset line and the 0-stress axis is at 0.2% strain. Offset for plastics is usually 2%.


Therefore: yield strength is a bit less general - but the two are very often used as synonyms.


    Reference: http://www.instron.com/apps/glossary/u.asp
    PhD in physics
Attila Piróth
France
Local time: 02:19
Native speaker of: Native in HungarianHungarian
PRO pts in pair: 222

Peer comments on this answer (and responses from the answerer)
agree  Bruce Popp: Ph.D. in astronomy
11 mins

agree  Nikki Scott-Despaigne
1 hr

agree  Didier Fourcot: And this clearly shows that "elastic limit" is a better translation of "limite élastique" than "yield strength", even though both concepts are probably synonyms in the French writer's mind
22 hrs
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12 mins   confidence: Answerer confidence 3/5Answerer confidence 3/5
elastic limit -yield


Explanation:
I found both but Could not decide which fit there.
limite élastique n. f.
elastic limit




limite élastique n. f.
elastic limit


Définition :
Charge au-dessous de laquelle il n'y a pas d'allongement permanent du câble.

upper yield point limite élastique supérieure n. f.
limite élastique conventionnelle n. f.
conventional yielding point
limite élastique de fatigue n. f.
fatigue yield strength

limite élastique apparente n. f.
apparent elastic limit
Définition :
Contrainte ou charge au-delà de laquelle les déformations qu'elle entraîne pour une pièce deviennent permanentes et dangereuses : La limite d'élasticité indique la limite des déformations élastiques admissibles. La limite d'élasticité est une caractéristique importante de la résistance mécanique d'un métal aux efforts constants, alors que la limite de fatigue définit la résistance mécanique aux efforts variables. Deux métaux ayant même limite élastique et soumis au même effort peuvent présenter des déformations très différentes suivant la forme ou la disposition des pièces. On peut réduire les déformations pour les maintenir dans le domaine élastique au-dessous des limites choisies, en modifiant la forme et les dimensions de chaque pièce, en augmentant par exemple le moment d'inertie des sections les plus fatiguées.
soudage
contrôle et essai des soudures


français
anglais

limite élastique n. f.
elastic limit




limite élastique n. f.
elastic limit


Définition :
Charge au-dessous de laquelle il n'y a pas d'allongement permanent du câble.


1964
Turkey
Local time: 03:19
Native speaker of: Native in TurkishTurkish
PRO pts in pair: 294
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1 hr   confidence: Answerer confidence 4/5Answerer confidence 4/5
limit of elasticity


Explanation:
http://www.proz.com/kudoz/401377

limit of elasticity, elastic limit, yield strength, yield limit, yield point

Tricky. Either of the suggestions can be justified. I think this is about client satisfaction, rather than being right or wrong. Harold, you said that lengthy exposés can be posted privately. However, for those wishing to see how answers have been arrived at, then it is better to have them posted up here. Yes, this is a long one and I have finally decided to plump for "LIMIT OF ELASTICITY" as it seems to be used more often with aluminium than any of the other possibilities.

Both appear in the Grand Dictionnaire Terminologique and the EuroDicAutom. I wouldn’t be worried about directing your client to those sources – on the contrary! I think a comparison of Documents 2 and 6 from the EuroDicAutom could prove useful. Funnily enough the GDT does not suggest “yield point” when you enter the term form French into English. However, trying “yield point” into French on the GDT gives you lots of interesting hits under the “metallurgy” heading. You might like to look into that one further. Turning it around to “limite d’élasticité” did produce more hits on the GDT.

Your client says he wants a literal translation and that is where the difficulty lies. When he says “literal” he probably means as close to the text as possible, but still using technical language. Apart from the fact that the more literal you get, the less naturally your final piece will read, I suspect your client thinks that your choice of “elastic limit” demonstrates a deliberate choice on your part to avoid using a very technical vocabulary. Winning your client round to your point of view on this one probably involves convincing him that “elastic limit” IS a technical term. Even if a synonymous, more technical sounding term exists, this does nothing to change the technical value of your term.

Try blinding him with science. A couple of reliable on-line dictionary sources he can consult himself and then with a couple of illustrations, again with a couple of erudite real-life sources.



DICTIONARY SOURCES

A - http://199.84.130.170/btml/fra/r_motclef/index800_1.asp


1 - limite élastique (cable en acier) = elastic limit

Définition : Charge au-dessous de laquelle il n'y a pas d'allongement permanent du câble.


2 – limite élastique (métallurgie : qualité des métaux, sidérurgie ; physique : résistance des matériaux) = aucune suggestion proposée

Définition : Charge par mm2 exprimée en kg pour laquelle il commence à se produire une déformation permanente, c'est-à-dire que pour toute charge inférieure il reprend sa longueur primitive quand l'effort cesse.


3 – limite élastique (qualité des métaux) = limit of elasticity


4 – yield point (metal quality) = limite d’élasticité

Definition : This is defined as the lowest stress at which the elongation of a rod or wire, etc., increases without additional increments of load. It is also defined as the maximum stress that can be sustained, without plastic deformation by a test piece subjected to a specified type of loading. It is usually obtained from a static test such as a tensile test.


5 -
métallurgie aluminium qualité des métaux

français anglais
limite d'élasticité n. f. limit of elasticity
Définition :La limite d'élasticité exprimée en hectobars (ou en hgf/mm2) est la valeur de l'effort unitaire correspondant au passage de la première à la deuxième phase. Toutefois, cette limite n'étant pas très nette dans tous les cas, il a été défini une limite d'élasticité conventionnelle E : c'est la valeur de l'effort unitaire pour lequel l'allongement permanent résiduel, après maintien de l'éprouvette sous charge pendant 10 secondes, est égal à O,2 %



B - http://europa.eu.int/eurodicautom/Controller


Document 2
Subject
Mechanical Engineering (MG)
Standardisation - Metrology (NO)

FR Definition Note:l'unité de mesure est le newton par millimètre carré ou N/mm2.

Reference - E 29-640:1981
(1)
TERM limite élastique

Reference - E 29-640:1981

EN
(1)
TERM
yield point





Document 6

Subject
Metallurgy - Iron & Steel - Non-ferrous Metals - Metal Casting (SI)


Definition
valeur maximale de la contrainte applicable à un corps solide sans y provoquer de déformation permanente.On précisera le cas échéant,sous quelle forme est appliquée la contrainte.Ex.:limite d'élasticité à la traction,à la flexion

Reference
ATF dic.idéologique de fonderie
(1)
TERM
limite d'élasticité vraie

Reference
ATF dic.idéologique de fonderie

Note
{NTE} ne pas employer:limite élastique
(2)
TERM
limite élastique

Reference
Conv.Europ.de la Construct.Métallique

Note
{NTE} ne pas employer:limite élastique
(3)
TERM
limite d'élasticité

Reference
Conv.Europ.de la Construct.Métallique

Note
{NTE} ne pas employer:limite élastique


Definition
maximum stress that a material will withstand without permanent deformation

Reference
ATF dic.idéologique de fonderie
(1)
TERM
elastic limit

Reference
ATF dic.idéologique de fonderie


    Reference: http://199.84.130.170/btml/fra/r_motclef/index800_1.asp
Nikki Scott-Despaigne
Local time: 02:19
Native speaker of: Native in EnglishEnglish
PRO pts in pair: 4404
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4 hrs   confidence: Answerer confidence 5/5
either elastic limit or yield point


Explanation:
First, get your client to define what he means by "limite élastique" : chances are he's using the wrong word anyway!

“For mild steel, this [the limit of proportionality] is very near the yield point and the elastic limit, and commercially all three are generally taken to be the same” [Penguin Dict of Civil Engineering].

As stated, this applies to mild steel. For other materials, the difference between the three may be greater, so find out from them (if they know) what difference it makes.

yield point - Point on the stress/strain curve or stress/rate of strain curve corresponding to the transition from elastic to plastic deformation.

elastic limit - Highest stress that can be applied without producing permanent deformation.
[BSI Glossary of Civ. Eng. Terms]

Note that "yield strength" is an Americanism. The above British sources speak only of the yield point, whereas ASTM defines yield strength.


xxxBourth
Local time: 02:19
Native speaker of: Native in EnglishEnglish
PRO pts in pair: 18679
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