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ou à défaut, dans le cas où pour des raisons de force majeure

English translation: help with sentence -- see below

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14:04 Mar 7, 2007
French to English translations [PRO]
Law/Patents - Law (general) / Shipping documents
French term or phrase: ou à défaut, dans le cas où pour des raisons de force majeure
It is item 3. below with which I need help. Not sure if it's just me, or whether the structure of the sentence in French is a bit off...(it IS from a contract, so it may be a question of 'contractese') but I would be most grateful if someone could help me to straighten it out and confirm that I have interpreted it correctly. My effort is below the context.

Documents d’expédition

Documents à envoyer directement par canal bancaire :

1. Factures commerciales en 10 exemplaires avec le numéro du tarif douanier de chaque produit, datées et signées par le Vendeur

2. Liste de colisage et de poids, en deux exemplaires

3. 2/3 du connaissement original ‘ON BOARD' établis au nom de la Banque de l’Acheteur/pays ***ou à défaut, dans le cas où pour des raisons de force majeure, d’impossibilité de décharger le matériel dans le pays de l’Acheteur ou pour des raisons imputables à
l’Acheteur **, un certificat de mise en entrepôt notify ordonnateur mentionnant fret payé
4. Certificat de conformité établi par le Vendeur
5. Copie du document douanier EX 1

2/3 (I'm understanding this to mean two of the 3 parts of this document) of the 'ON BOARD' bill of lading made out in the name of the Purchaser's bank/country or, failing that, and in the event that for reasons of force majeure, or for reasons attributable to the Purchaser, it has not been possible to unload the equipment in the Purchaser's country.... etc.

Am I right to move the 'or for reasons attributable to the Purchaser' bit? Otherwise, it doesn't really make sense if left in the same order as the French...?
French2English
United Kingdom
Local time: 05:04
English translation:help with sentence -- see below
Explanation:
I read the sentence differently, adding implicitly "pour des raisons" before "d'impossibilité". The logic of the sentence would then be:

2/3 du connaissement original ‘ON BOARD' établis au nom de la Banque de l’Acheteur/pays ***ou à défaut,
[dans le cas où
1. pour des raisons de force majeure,
2. pour des raisons d’impossibilité de décharger le matériel dans le pays de l’Acheteur ou
3. pour des raisons imputables à l’Acheteur **,]
un certificat de mise en entrepôt notify ordonnateur mentionnant fret payé

Even if I can't see one right now, there might be a situation where "force majeure" is not a synonym of "raisons d’impossibilité de décharger", maybe for economical reasons that are independant of the Purchaser's will, but nevertheless not a real force majeure.

Anyhow, I wouldn't change the order of the French sentence.
Selected response from:

Robert Mouris
Hungary
Local time: 06:04
Grading comment
Graded on the number of 'agrees' - although Tony's answer very nearly made it!
4 KudoZ points were awarded for this answer

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Summary of answers provided
3 +3help with sentence -- see below
Robert Mouris
3see underxxxMaudarg
1 +2See comments below...
Tony M


Discussion entries: 5





  

Answers


15 mins   confidence: Answerer confidence 1/5Answerer confidence 1/5 peer agreement (net): +2
help with sentence
See comments below...


Explanation:
At first reading, I read it the same way as you.

HOWEVER, I can see that there might be more to it than meets the eye, and the word order might be deliberate (though flawed!)

I think it might be:

dans le cas d’impossibilité de décharger le matériel dans le pays de l’Acheteur (pour des raisons de force majeure), ou pour des raisons imputables à l’Acheteur,

In other words, the 'force majeure' applies ONLY to the impossiiblity of unloading in the given country, and the 'raisons imputables à l'acheteur' relate to different reasons, nothing to do with force majeure.

In other words, only 'force majeure' could prevent unloading..., even though there might be other reasons for this particular action being taken; but I freely admit it is very unclear, and I'm only brainstorming to see if we can untangle this all together!

Tony M
France
Local time: 06:04
Native speaker of: Native in EnglishEnglish
PRO pts in category: 239

Peer comments on this answer (and responses from the answerer)
agree  David Goward: I think you're right and that the "où" following "dans le cas" is superfluous. I also think it's better to stick quite closely to the French in such cases!!
3 mins
  -> Thanks, David! Well, I think one needs to study very carefully and look for other solutions, before assuming an error!

agree  Graham macLachlan
11 mins
  -> Thanks, mactrad!
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22 mins   confidence: Answerer confidence 3/5Answerer confidence 3/5
help with sentence
see under


Explanation:
I would understand this as being:
...for reasons of force majeure, or that it has not been possible to unload the equipment in the Purchaser's country,or for *other* reasons attributable to the Purchaser... etc.
*other* (my addition) reasons could be order cancellation etc.


xxxMaudarg
United Kingdom
Local time: 05:04
Native speaker of: Native in EnglishEnglish
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45 mins   confidence: Answerer confidence 3/5Answerer confidence 3/5 peer agreement (net): +3
help with sentence
help with sentence -- see below


Explanation:
I read the sentence differently, adding implicitly "pour des raisons" before "d'impossibilité". The logic of the sentence would then be:

2/3 du connaissement original ‘ON BOARD' établis au nom de la Banque de l’Acheteur/pays ***ou à défaut,
[dans le cas où
1. pour des raisons de force majeure,
2. pour des raisons d’impossibilité de décharger le matériel dans le pays de l’Acheteur ou
3. pour des raisons imputables à l’Acheteur **,]
un certificat de mise en entrepôt notify ordonnateur mentionnant fret payé

Even if I can't see one right now, there might be a situation where "force majeure" is not a synonym of "raisons d’impossibilité de décharger", maybe for economical reasons that are independant of the Purchaser's will, but nevertheless not a real force majeure.

Anyhow, I wouldn't change the order of the French sentence.

Robert Mouris
Hungary
Local time: 06:04
Specializes in field
Native speaker of: Native in LetzeburgeschLetzeburgesch
PRO pts in category: 4
Grading comment
Graded on the number of 'agrees' - although Tony's answer very nearly made it!

Peer comments on this answer (and responses from the answerer)
agree  rousselures: I agree, it might simply refer to customs clearance or something...
4 hrs

agree  Veronica Coquard: Exactly, custom clearance is what comes to mind.
22 hrs

agree  Natasha Dupuy
1 day4 hrs
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Changes made by editors
Jun 4, 2011 - Changes made by Stéphanie Soudais:
Removed from KOGforce majeure clause details > (see explanation) by <a href="/profile/21113">French2English</a> » Reason: No source/translation provided
Jun 4, 2011 - Changes made by Stéphanie Soudais:
Term askedhelp with sentence » ou à défaut, dans le cas où pour des raisons de force majeure
Field (specific)Transport / Transportation / Shipping » Law (general)


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