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derselbe

English translation: idem

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GLOSSARY ENTRY (DERIVED FROM QUESTION BELOW)
German term or phrase:derselbe
English translation:idem
Entered by: Rod Darby
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17:32 May 26, 2002
German to English translations [PRO]
Bus/Financial - Accounting / auditing
German term or phrase: derselbe
"(cf. DRUKARCZYK, pp. 249, 263; AHA, AG 1997, p. 34 m.w.N.; BALLWIESER, WPg 1995, p. 123; derselbe, DB 1997, p. 2394; derselbe, WPg 1998, p. 82)"
This is positively the LAST! I've battled my way through these citation things, but 'derselbe' floors me - is there a standard English term for this, like 'ibid' for 'ebenda'?
TFYH,
Rod
Rod Darby
Ghana
Local time: 04:03
ibid
Explanation:
is just right

"derselbe" refers to the (name of the) author ("derselbe Autor/Verfasser", i.e. BALLWIESER) and is identical to "ebenda"

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Note added at 2002-05-26 17:44:58 (GMT)
--------------------------------------------------

Stop!! I must correct myself since there are different sources which seems to be the underlying problem (identical author - various bibliographical sources). ibid would IMO only work if there is one single source but different chapters/pages are cited.

At the moment I cannot think of any panacea/standard rendering of this. Perhaps you could indicate the author\'s name everytime it occurs or translate \"same author\".

--------------------------------------------------
Note added at 2002-05-26 17:46:19 (GMT)
--------------------------------------------------

should rather read \"indicate author\'s name after each source cited\"
Selected response from:

Steffen Walter
Germany
Local time: 06:03
Grading comment
Steffen,
thanks you sharing your thoughts - same author put me on the right track, and I finally found 'idem' in my faithful Concise Oxford (given me by Granny in 1962!), for which the definition given is: 'the same author'.
Thanks, too, to Deb for a very exhaustive answer, though I'm not quite sure what you finally recommended.
Thanks to all, again,
Rod

2 KudoZ points were awarded for this answer

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Summary of answers provided
5 +3ibid
Steffen Walter
4 +1ditto
Jeannie Graham
4Op cit and IbidDeb Phillips


Discussion entries: 1





  

Answers


3 mins   confidence: Answerer confidence 4/5Answerer confidence 4/5 peer agreement (net): +1
ditto


Explanation:
my suggestion

Jeannie Graham
United Kingdom
Local time: 05:03
Native speaker of: Native in EnglishEnglish

Peer comments on this answer (and responses from the answerer)
agree  Deb Phillips
55 mins
Login to enter a peer comment (or grade)

7 mins   confidence: Answerer confidence 5/5 peer agreement (net): +3
ibid


Explanation:
is just right

"derselbe" refers to the (name of the) author ("derselbe Autor/Verfasser", i.e. BALLWIESER) and is identical to "ebenda"

--------------------------------------------------
Note added at 2002-05-26 17:44:58 (GMT)
--------------------------------------------------

Stop!! I must correct myself since there are different sources which seems to be the underlying problem (identical author - various bibliographical sources). ibid would IMO only work if there is one single source but different chapters/pages are cited.

At the moment I cannot think of any panacea/standard rendering of this. Perhaps you could indicate the author\'s name everytime it occurs or translate \"same author\".

--------------------------------------------------
Note added at 2002-05-26 17:46:19 (GMT)
--------------------------------------------------

should rather read \"indicate author\'s name after each source cited\"

Steffen Walter
Germany
Local time: 06:03
Specializes in field
Native speaker of: Native in GermanGerman
PRO pts in category: 416
Grading comment
Steffen,
thanks you sharing your thoughts - same author put me on the right track, and I finally found 'idem' in my faithful Concise Oxford (given me by Granny in 1962!), for which the definition given is: 'the same author'.
Thanks, too, to Deb for a very exhaustive answer, though I'm not quite sure what you finally recommended.
Thanks to all, again,
Rod

Peer comments on this answer (and responses from the answerer)
agree  Elisabeth Ghysels: same author
20 mins
  -> Thanks Nikolaus

agree  Chris Rowson: I think it works for both cases. As Rod probably knows, it is short for "ibidem", meaning "the same" - so I think it works for author or work alike.
45 mins
  -> Thanks Chris

agree  Deb Phillips: see my answer - ibid yes - op cit no - last name and page # when not subsequent - good save
1 hr
  -> Thanks
Login to enter a peer comment (or grade)

1 hr   confidence: Answerer confidence 4/5Answerer confidence 4/5
Op cit and Ibid


Explanation:
Quick Reference Guide to the Chicago Manual of Style and Turabian
... Multiple Reference Note (Chicago Manual of Style 1994 ... work containing both a bibliography
and notes, citations ... Following footnotes for the same book: Ibid ("in ...
http://www.library.wwu.edu/ref/Refhome/chicago.html

For subsequent references to the same source:

When you cite the same work in a subsequent reference, use only the author’s last name and the page number.
In cases of two authors, use both last names. In case of more than two authors, use the first author’s last name and the
abbreviation et al. for the remaining authors. In the case of an article or book without an author, use a shortened
title and page number.

1. Bordon, p. 17.

2. Jones and Smith, p. 91.

3. Somerset, et al., p.13.

4. Civil War, p. 42.

In addition, you may use the Latin abbreviation "Ibid." when citing subsequent sources that immediately follow the first reference.

Authored Book
Note:
7. Gilbert Herdt, Same Sex, Different Cultures: Exploring Gay and Lesbian Lives (Boulder, Colorado: Westview Press, 1997), 32.

Following footnotes for the same book:
Ibid ("in the same place") is used to refer to a single work cited in the note immediately preceeding:
8. Ibid
When the work is cited earlier but not immediately preceeding:
14. Herdt, 32.
More examples.

Bibliography (one author):
Herdt, Gilbert. Same Sex, Different Cultures: Exploring Gay and Lesbian Lives. Boulder, Colorado:
Westview Press, 1997.

Note (three or more authors):
9. Jones, Mary et al., A History of the World (Bellingham: From the Beginning Press, 2000).

Following footnotes for the same book:
10. Jones et al., History of the World, 17.

Bibliography (three or more authors):
Jones, Mary, Frank Smith, Alex Jackson and Sarah Pope. A History of the World. Bellingham: From the Beginning
Press, 2000.

For works having more than three authors, a note citation should give the name of the first author followed by "et al" or "and others." The bibliography citation should list all the authors.
----------------------------------------

Citing Cyberspace/Chicago Citations
... page all the footnotes to citations ... After a first full reference ... 3. The Latin abbreviations
op. ... cit. ... longer used, but The Chicago Manual of Style ...
http://www.apsu.edu/~lesterj/CYBER5.HTM


Subsequent References to a Source

After a first full reference, shorten future footnotes to the source by giving only the name of the author (or title), followed by a paragraph number (e.g., 3. Smith, par. 9). If an author has two works mentioned, employ a shortened version of the title with the author's name (e.g., 3. Smith, "Cloning," par. 22).


14. Diamond, par. 6.


15. Fahey, "Beach House," par. 20.


16. Fahey, "End Run," par. 3.

The Latin abbreviations op. cit and loc. cit. are no longer used, but The Chicago Manual of Style does permit the use of ibid. to refer to the source cited in the previous note. For the same paragraph, use "ibid." alone, and for a different paragraph use ibid. followed by the paragraph number.


7. Ibid.


8. Ibid., para. 6.
----------------------------------------

Op cit and Ibid

Ibid. is the abbreviation of ibidem which means in the same book, chapter, passage, etc. "When references to the same work follow one another without any intervening reference, ibid is used to repeat as much of the preceding reference as is appropriate for the new entry." (Turabian 1996 p. 159)

Op. cit. is the abbreviation of opus citatum which means in the work already quoted.

An extract from a book is given to illustrate the use of ibid and op cit.

By the early 1870s, anti-Chinese feeling had reached explosive proportions. In October 1871 a riot in Los Angeles claimed about nineteen Chinese lives. 25 More seriously, throughout the decade of the 1870s, sporadic anti-Chinese incidents had been transformed into an organised political movement. Against this background was the increase in the 1860s of white immigrants from Europe, particularly from Ireland, into California. By 1870 the Irish alone constituted one-fourth of the 210,000 foreign-born persons in the state.26 As more and more Irishmen entered the labour market, they felt that their employment opportunities were jeopardised by Chinese immigrants, and as the Chinese were prepared to take on jobs of longer hours for less wages, their bargaining power with employers was greatly reduced. To many Irish workers, the Chinese were a docile tool of the "greedy capitalists", and the cause of their misery.27



--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

23 See Gunther Barth, Bitter Strength: A History of the Chinese in the United States, 1850-1870 (Cambridge, Mass., 1964), p. 131.
24 The queue was orginally imposed on Han Chinese by the Manchu conquerors after 1644, since then many Chinese regarded queues as an inseparate part of their bodies and took pride in it. Many overseas Chinese would be offended if their queues were pulled by foreigners. See Lau Pau, 3/12/1890, p. 1.
25 Gunther Barth, op. cit., p. 144.
26 M.R. Coolidge, Chinese Immigration, p. 64.
27 Ibid., p. 116.




Extracted from: Yen Ching-Hwang. 1985. Coolies and Mandarins : China's protection of overseas Chinese during the late Ch'ing period (1851-1911). Singapore : Singapore University Press, p. 211.


Understanding citations
... 27 Ibid., p. 116. ... We hope that some light has been shed on the art of understanding
citations and that ... LB2369 Bos (CL Reference Coll). Chicago manual of style. ...
http://www.lib.nus.edu.sg/linus/97jul/undscitn.html
More Results From: www.lib.nus.edu.sg









    Reference: http://www.library.wwu.edu/ref/Refhome/chicago.html
    Reference: http://www.lib.nus.edu.sg/linus/97jul/undscitn.html
Deb Phillips
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