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08:45 Jun 1, 2002
German to English translations [PRO]
Art/Literary
German term or phrase: sentence
Die ganze Frage nach dem Erschaffen- oder Ewigsein des Korans ist also (nicht etwa nut analog der christlichen Logosfrage selbstaendig erwachsen), sondern sie ist dem Islam von den Christen aufgezwungen worden.

Section in brackets is the part I don't understand.
MSH
Local time: 08:46
English translation:see explanation
Explanation:
The concept of "logos" is somewhat involved. Logos is Greek and means "word", but in a broader context it means Jesus resp. the Gospel, the Message. Cf. the first verses of the Gospel of John, which go approximately like this: "In the beginning was the Word (in the Greek original it says "logos"), and the Word ("logos") was with God, and God was the Word (again, "logos")." So the concept of logos is very deeply embedded in Christianity and referring to God, Jesus, and the Message. In the course of history, the church continued to develop this concept until today it appears to have become rather intricate and only understandable by theologians.

The Koran (Qur'an or whichever spelling you prefer), on the other hand, is considered by Moslems to be in its entirety the authentic word of God (the Gospels etc. are only narratives). This is why the Koran is only authentic in its original version (Arabic), cannot be changed or modified and is considered to be valid for all eternity (God cannot change his word). Indeed, Moslems consider it a sin to throw away worn-out copies of the Koran.

Maybe this will give you a better idea of the underlying principles that are being discussed by the author of your text. Now, let me try to explain the section in brackets. Please bear with me -- my English isn't good enough to put this into a decent sentence, but I'll try my best (and I am neither a Christion nor a Muslim theologian. I have just lived in Moslem countries long enough to be somewhat familiar with their religion).

"Thus the question.....(has not only originated [developed] on its own, analogous to the Logos question in Christianity) but was imposed upon Islam..."

I hope this will help. A bit more context would have been helpful because, it seems to me, the author is arriving at a strange conclusion, but I doubt whether it would have made much difference for the purpose of the translation.

Good luck!



--------------------------------------------------
Note added at 2002-06-01 14:21:51 (GMT)
--------------------------------------------------

I think I should express myself a bit more clearly on the \"Ewigsein des Korans\" vs. \"Erschaffensein des Korans\": by Muslim (and also Christian) belief, the word of God is eternal in the sense that it has always existed and will always exist. Thus, in Muslim belief, the Koran, being the word of God, cannot have been created but has always existed. This contrasts to the Bible, especially to the New Testament, which is a report by various eye-witnesses. In essence, the author is saying that the question whether the Koran has been created (as non-Muslims would say) or has existed since times eternal (as Muslims believe) was forced upon Islam by Christianity.
Selected response from:

LegalTrans D
Turkey
Grading comment
Thank you very much for providing such a detailed answer...this context to the question was extremely helpful!
MSH.
4 KudoZ points were awarded for this answer

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Summary of answers provided
4 +3did not only arise
schmurr
4 +1see explanation
LegalTrans D
4Sentence option:xxxbrute
4(possibly not analogous to an untellectual self-justification of christianity grown into independancflash


  

Answers


31 mins   confidence: Answerer confidence 4/5Answerer confidence 4/5 peer agreement (net): +3
did not only arise


Explanation:
"nut" must be "nur"
"etwa" could be rendered by "by any means" but can be left out here.

schmurr
Local time: 09:46
Native speaker of: Native in GermanGerman
PRO pts in pair: 161

Peer comments on this answer (and responses from the answerer)
agree  Emma Loghin
23 mins

agree  Petra Winter
49 mins

agree  xxxninasc
7 hrs
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3 hrs   confidence: Answerer confidence 4/5Answerer confidence 4/5
(possibly not analogous to an untellectual self-justification of christianity grown into independanc


Explanation:
Close enough, I think. (Let`s face it: nobody really understands this sort of stuff anyway!)

flash
PRO pts in pair: 8
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3 hrs   confidence: Answerer confidence 4/5Answerer confidence 4/5 peer agreement (net): +1
see explanation


Explanation:
The concept of "logos" is somewhat involved. Logos is Greek and means "word", but in a broader context it means Jesus resp. the Gospel, the Message. Cf. the first verses of the Gospel of John, which go approximately like this: "In the beginning was the Word (in the Greek original it says "logos"), and the Word ("logos") was with God, and God was the Word (again, "logos")." So the concept of logos is very deeply embedded in Christianity and referring to God, Jesus, and the Message. In the course of history, the church continued to develop this concept until today it appears to have become rather intricate and only understandable by theologians.

The Koran (Qur'an or whichever spelling you prefer), on the other hand, is considered by Moslems to be in its entirety the authentic word of God (the Gospels etc. are only narratives). This is why the Koran is only authentic in its original version (Arabic), cannot be changed or modified and is considered to be valid for all eternity (God cannot change his word). Indeed, Moslems consider it a sin to throw away worn-out copies of the Koran.

Maybe this will give you a better idea of the underlying principles that are being discussed by the author of your text. Now, let me try to explain the section in brackets. Please bear with me -- my English isn't good enough to put this into a decent sentence, but I'll try my best (and I am neither a Christion nor a Muslim theologian. I have just lived in Moslem countries long enough to be somewhat familiar with their religion).

"Thus the question.....(has not only originated [developed] on its own, analogous to the Logos question in Christianity) but was imposed upon Islam..."

I hope this will help. A bit more context would have been helpful because, it seems to me, the author is arriving at a strange conclusion, but I doubt whether it would have made much difference for the purpose of the translation.

Good luck!



--------------------------------------------------
Note added at 2002-06-01 14:21:51 (GMT)
--------------------------------------------------

I think I should express myself a bit more clearly on the \"Ewigsein des Korans\" vs. \"Erschaffensein des Korans\": by Muslim (and also Christian) belief, the word of God is eternal in the sense that it has always existed and will always exist. Thus, in Muslim belief, the Koran, being the word of God, cannot have been created but has always existed. This contrasts to the Bible, especially to the New Testament, which is a report by various eye-witnesses. In essence, the author is saying that the question whether the Koran has been created (as non-Muslims would say) or has existed since times eternal (as Muslims believe) was forced upon Islam by Christianity.

LegalTrans D
Turkey
Native speaker of: Native in GermanGerman
PRO pts in pair: 551
Grading comment
Thank you very much for providing such a detailed answer...this context to the question was extremely helpful!
MSH.

Peer comments on this answer (and responses from the answerer)
agree  Chris Rowson: Yes, except that "logos" in Greek is really more "thought" or "idea", and only by transfer "word". I find the sentence quite clear, and the translation above quite correct.
1 hr
  -> It's the other way around, Chris. Originally, logos was word. Idea and thought came later. Same as us. First we talk- then we think.
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4 hrs   confidence: Answerer confidence 4/5Answerer confidence 4/5
Sentence option:


Explanation:
The whole question of Koran's creation or perpetuity was not just derived at independantly analogous to the Christian logos question, but was forced onto Islam by Christianity.

xxxbrute
PRO pts in pair: 255

Peer comments on this answer (and responses from the answerer)
neutral  LegalTrans D: I'm unhappy about the word "derived": erwachsen here means to come about, to originate, to develop. Also, "Erschaffensein" is not equal to "creation". I know this may appear as hair-splitting, but theologians are hair-splitters by nature.
18 mins

neutral  Kim Metzger: The Koran, not Koran. Eternity is the theological term, not perpetuity.
9 hrs
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