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prüde Ziege

English translation: prude

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12:31 Jan 18, 2004
German to English translations [PRO]
Art/Literary
German term or phrase: prüde Ziege
The boy is 14 and the girl is 5. He wants to *play doctor* and she doesn't want to. He says the following:

"Komm her, du prüde Zeige, ich will doch nur gucken, für alles andere bist du eh zu klein."
Gunilla Zedigh
Germany
Local time: 10:35
English translation:prude
Explanation:
I would translate "prüde Ziege" as "prude" here.

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Note added at 3 hrs 45 mins (2004-01-18 16:17:01 GMT)
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Re Maureen\'s comment \"question whether a 5-year-old in the forties would even understand the word\" - the same thing had occurred to me, but then again it would be wrong to assume that 14-year-old boys always tailor their language to be understood by 5-year-old girls.

--------------------------------------------------
Note added at 3 hrs 45 mins (2004-01-18 16:17:08 GMT)
--------------------------------------------------

Re Maureen\'s comment \"question whether a 5-year-old in the forties would even understand the word\" - the same thing had occurred to me, but then again it would be wrong to assume that 14-year-old boys always tailor their language to be understood by 5-year-old girls.

--------------------------------------------------
Note added at 3 hrs 45 mins (2004-01-18 16:17:14 GMT)
--------------------------------------------------

Re Maureen\'s comment \"question whether a 5-year-old in the forties would even understand the word\" - the same thing had occurred to me, but then again it would be wrong to assume that 14-year-old boys always tailor their language to be understood by 5-year-old girls.
Selected response from:

xxxIanW
Local time: 10:35
Grading comment
thanks everyone!! i'll go with just prude ... and leave out the goat ... thanks again ... gz
4 KudoZ points were awarded for this answer

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Summary of answers provided
4 +7prudexxxIanW
4 +6prissy little nit
Kim Metzger
4 +3Miss PrissNancy Arrowsmith
5 +1prudish little ninny
Maureen Holm, J.D., LL.M.
4 +1Come here, you priggish little goat-
Gareth McMillan
4bashful ninny
Textklick
3 +1prim and proper little goat
jerrie
3 +1stuffy chick
Hermann


  

Answers


2 mins   confidence: Answerer confidence 3/5Answerer confidence 3/5 peer agreement (net): +1
prüde Ziege
stuffy chick


Explanation:
:-))

Hermann
Local time: 09:35
Native speaker of: Native in EnglishEnglish, Native in GermanGerman
PRO pts in pair: 1977

Peer comments on this answer (and responses from the answerer)
neutral  xxxIanW: Ermm, don't think so, Norbert!
16 mins

neutral  writeaway: says a 14 year old boy to a 5 year old girl in a WWII setting? a trifle doubtful Hermann ;-)
16 mins
  -> depends on the education of the boy :-)

agree  Gareth McMillan: It's not great, but I don't see what's wrong with this- matter of style- "chick", chicken goes back to Dickensian times.ADD: That's maybe cos some people don't like to remember that period- shows their age.
1 hr
  -> but I am told it was not around pre-WWII ??
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1 hr   confidence: Answerer confidence 4/5Answerer confidence 4/5
prüde Ziege
bashful ninny


Explanation:
Is the sort of expression that would have been used in those days in the U.K IMHO

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Note added at 2 hrs 0 min (2004-01-18 14:32:10 GMT)
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Gareth: I reckon that poetic licence and retrospeak are very appropriate. (s.above. writeaway: since it\'s a 14 year old boy playing doc with a 5 year old girl and it\'s supposed to be innocent (?), it\'s best to keep it simple.
Also - she wouldn\'t have understood \"prude\"

Textklick
Local time: 09:35
Native speaker of: English
PRO pts in pair: 1097

Peer comments on this answer (and responses from the answerer)
neutral  Gareth McMillan: Bashful doesn't quite get the sexual context- like, what's she shy of?
16 mins

neutral  Richard Benham: "Bashful" doesn't do it. It means shy in the sense of modest, has very little to do with sex, and is not pejorative. I think Gareth has answered his own question in one of his notes....
5 hrs
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2 hrs   confidence: Answerer confidence 3/5Answerer confidence 3/5 peer agreement (net): +1
prim and proper little goat


Explanation:
strait-laced little goat

I would be tempted to keep goat, in case the allusion to obstinacy is intended.

Or change the sentence round a bit, and say, come here and stop being so prim and proper / such a prude. I only want... etc

Just an idea

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Note added at 2004-01-18 15:48:16 (GMT)
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Little Miss Goody Two Shoes
(capitalisation option!)

or

kid (keeping the goat thing)
prudish / stuffy / hoity toity little kid

jerrie
United Kingdom
Local time: 09:35
Native speaker of: Native in EnglishEnglish
PRO pts in pair: 1469

Peer comments on this answer (and responses from the answerer)
agree  Gareth McMillan: Yes, let's keep the goat.
1 hr
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2 mins   confidence: Answerer confidence 4/5Answerer confidence 4/5 peer agreement (net): +7
prüde Ziege
prude


Explanation:
I would translate "prüde Ziege" as "prude" here.

--------------------------------------------------
Note added at 3 hrs 45 mins (2004-01-18 16:17:01 GMT)
--------------------------------------------------

Re Maureen\'s comment \"question whether a 5-year-old in the forties would even understand the word\" - the same thing had occurred to me, but then again it would be wrong to assume that 14-year-old boys always tailor their language to be understood by 5-year-old girls.

--------------------------------------------------
Note added at 3 hrs 45 mins (2004-01-18 16:17:08 GMT)
--------------------------------------------------

Re Maureen\'s comment \"question whether a 5-year-old in the forties would even understand the word\" - the same thing had occurred to me, but then again it would be wrong to assume that 14-year-old boys always tailor their language to be understood by 5-year-old girls.

--------------------------------------------------
Note added at 3 hrs 45 mins (2004-01-18 16:17:14 GMT)
--------------------------------------------------

Re Maureen\'s comment \"question whether a 5-year-old in the forties would even understand the word\" - the same thing had occurred to me, but then again it would be wrong to assume that 14-year-old boys always tailor their language to be understood by 5-year-old girls.

xxxIanW
Local time: 10:35
Native speaker of: Native in EnglishEnglish
PRO pts in pair: 2468
Grading comment
thanks everyone!! i'll go with just prude ... and leave out the goat ... thanks again ... gz

Peer comments on this answer (and responses from the answerer)
agree  xxxAThode: me too
1 min

agree  Michele Johnson: Yes, wouldn't worry so much about the word-for-word translation in such a case. "Don't be so prude, I just want to look...."
5 mins
  -> Yes, but don't be "such a prude" or "so prudish" (or is that a US usage?)

agree  writeaway: since it's a 14 year old boy playing doc with a 5 year old girl and it's supposed to be innocent (?), it's best to keep it simple.
15 mins

agree  Trudy Peters: maybe "you little prude"
1 hr

neutral  Gareth McMillan: Too simple- what about the goat? Or is he just into girls? ADD: Eh...."old".
1 hr
  -> What about the goat? If someone calls you a "randy old goat", which of the two words is the most important one?!

agree  Gillian Scheibelein: while the Germans call females Zicke or Ziege (nanny goat), we don't in English, it would be more likely to be "cow" or "bitch". I like Ian's "don't be such a prude" best
2 hrs

neutral  Maureen Holm, J.D., LL.M.: miss the animal // question whether a 5-year-old in the forties would even understand the word
3 hrs
  -> I really think the animal is unimportant here, Maureen. What he is saying is "don't be such a prude", whether he calls her a goat, an idiot or rolls the adjective and noun into one.

agree  Melanie Nassar : agree with Trudy, "you little prude"
4 hrs

agree  David Moore: and with Gillian
5 hrs

neutral  Richard Benham: I like the goat. Names of animals as insults were much more popular in the "good old days", because people took extraordinary pains to ensure children didn't learn any of the words customarily used even by the very young today.
7 hrs
  -> I'm not saying it's wrong to include the goat, Richard, just that it's not necessary.

disagree  FreePro: The goat part is what I disagree with :) A goat is rarely associated with a female. I agree to just leave it out, as it is not even necessary
1 day1 hr
  -> Right, so do I, so why the "disagree"?!?

agree  Hilary Davies Shelby: "dont be such a little prude" - I agree with Gillian too that "cow" or "bitch" would be more likely than "goat" here
2 days23 hrs
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4 hrs   confidence: Answerer confidence 4/5Answerer confidence 4/5 peer agreement (net): +3
Miss Priss


Explanation:

One way to put girls down is to say, "little Miss so-an-so"...

Nancy Arrowsmith
Local time: 02:35
Native speaker of: Native in EnglishEnglish
PRO pts in pair: 474

Peer comments on this answer (and responses from the answerer)
agree  Gareth McMillan: Miss Priss? What's this? (Heh, heh). Good we didn't have the "Ms" form of address in those days, or we'd never get the question finished.
33 mins

neutral  Richard Benham: Or "Priss miss"???
2 hrs

agree  writeaway: Little Miss Priss sounds good
21 hrs

agree  Hilary Davies Shelby: I think this is a great suggestion, definitely for US, its definitely something I have heard used in TX
2 days18 hrs
  -> I spent a lot of time there when I was young...
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1 hr   confidence: Answerer confidence 4/5Answerer confidence 4/5 peer agreement (net): +1
prüde Ziege
Come here, you priggish little goat-


Explanation:
I think this needs more than a one word translation, and has to be "obvously" old fashioned in it's style with a touch of colour.

I've attempted something along the lines of Enid Blyton for style (but not subject matter).

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Note added at 3 hrs 37 mins (2004-01-18 16:08:32 GMT)
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Yes Ian, it\'s fun as long as I don\'t have to spend all afternoon explaining myself- I\'m supposed to be plastering the hall while the \"decoration police\" are out.

The fact that \"you little goat\" \"you silly goat\" twins with the source text here, is pure coincidence. It used to be a very common in literature (I quote E.Blyton as a typical example) and everyday speech in an age when children had a much milder vocabulary of abusive words.
I grew up on a diet of literature which was contemporary with the post war period- and much of what I read or could get my hands on was in fact written by authors in a style which even began before the war.

A great deal of this style of literature and especially Enid Blyton, was banned by Harold Wilson\'s labour government which is why a lot of younger people are unfamiliar with it.

In any case, as an Irishman, you were probably too busy reading Joyce or Bernard Shaw, the former of which noteworthy authors probably would have answered the question like this-

\"Come here, you cockshy little bitch...\"

(Meaning, of course, he was going to hit her with a cockshy stick because she wouldn\'t co-operate.)

Ref:
1883 J. GREENWOOD Odd People in Odd Places i. 6 One of the latter [i.e. donkey carts] being laden with cockshy sticks and cocoa-nuts.
3. The missile thrown. rare1.
1837-40 HALIBURTON Clockm. (1862) 189 The boy..threw his cock-shy at him with unerring aim, and killed him.
4. The object at which the ‘shy’ is made. Hence transf. A thing to throw at; an object of attack.
1836 E. HOWARD R. Reefer xxvi, What a fine cock-shy he would make!
1888 Times 1 Oct. 4/1 It is never agreeable to either an individual or a body of troops to be made a sort of cockshy for an enemy.
5. The establishment of a strolling proprietor, where sticks may be thrown at coco-nuts or the like, for payment.
1879 Daily News 7 Apr. 3/1 The tow-path is lined with people many deep, where the proprietors of ‘cockshies’,..and rifle galleries are driving a lucrative trade.
Hence
cock-shying, cock-throwing, playing at cockshy.
1870 G. W. DASENT Annals of an Eventful Life I. 194 Flogging in the army, and bull-baiting, and cock-shying.


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Note added at 5 hrs 24 mins (2004-01-18 17:55:38 GMT)
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I believe the second noteworthy Irish author (see above) is credited with having said:

\"Those who can, do. Those who cannot, translate.\"

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Note added at 6 hrs 14 mins (2004-01-18 18:45:45 GMT)
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Thanks for explaining my little joke for me, Ian.

And \"actually\", it was \"teach\" if you quote it in the plural.

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Note added at 10 hrs 20 mins (2004-01-18 22:51:54 GMT)
--------------------------------------------------

Why no comment on the word \"priggish\"- I thought it was OK?

Gareth McMillan
Local time: 10:35
Native speaker of: Native in EnglishEnglish
PRO pts in pair: 793

Peer comments on this answer (and responses from the answerer)
neutral  xxxIanW: I'm sorry, but what on Earth has Enid Blyton got to do with it? And I don't think a literal translation works well here: would you translate "Mein lieber Herr Gesangsverein" as "My dear Mr. Singing Club"? ADDED: Actually, the quote was "teaches"!
1 hr
  -> Please read above for alternative to Enid Blyton style. "My dear Mr. Singing Club"- sounds great!

neutral  Textklick: I think it's disgraceful to draw Enid Blyton into this.
1 hr
  -> Enid Blyton was at one time considered disgraceful. See above.

agree  Richard Benham: I don't see what's wrong with "prudish little goat" here either. Without "little" it seems a little unidiomatic, so "little" good. A lot of Enid Blyton's books were banned from school libraries in Australia for racist comments about golliwogs.
5 hrs
  -> And domination of the male of the species. The boys were always the "leaders", the girls helped, but when they got it wrong, they were "siily goats" or somesuch.
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4 hrs   confidence: Answerer confidence 4/5Answerer confidence 4/5 peer agreement (net): +6
prüde Ziege
prissy little nit


Explanation:
This might be something a Brit would say. Nit as in fool. Don't be such a prissy little nit.



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Note added at 1 day 11 hrs 55 mins (2004-01-20 00:27:06 GMT)
--------------------------------------------------

Proposed alternative: you prissy little twit. Twit: a foolish, stupid, or ineffectual person. Colloq. mid 20th century OED.

Kim Metzger
Mexico
Local time: 03:35
Native speaker of: Native in EnglishEnglish
PRO pts in pair: 21825

Peer comments on this answer (and responses from the answerer)
agree  Nigel Hagger-Vaughan: I haven't heard anyone use the word "nit" since I was about 8 - so you could be right!
4 hrs
  -> I spent a year in Muswell Hill, 1952-53 (as a 7-year-old). They were always calling me a nit or Yank.

agree  Gareth McMillan: Like "prissy". Nit, nitwit is mild , maybe too mild- the question develops, oder?
5 hrs
  -> Yes, a nice little challenge for the day. Ziege is also rather mild, in my experience.

agree  Textklick: Kim the big OED monitors much; but first ref in that context not until 1962 and thereafter "Melody Maker 11 Aug 6/1 ...he wasn’t impressed with this nit sitting across the table."
6 hrs
  -> Interesting point. I wonder if that dico captured contemporary colloquialisms?

neutral  Richard Benham: "Nit" doesn't really do it; it's more to do with being vapid than stupid an intransigent like a goat. "Prissy" is good as an alternaitve to "prudish", and "little" seems to be compulsory in English. (Sorry, Kim, I still think "nit" is inappropriate.)
9 hrs
  -> What does 'Ziege' mean to Germans as it's used here? - dummme Gans, not stubborn - that's the English connotation. What does nit mean here? - Nitwit, fool.

agree  writeaway: I like Prissy too-fits in really well
22 hrs
  -> Interesting challenge: translating a story that took place in the past for a modern audience. The speaker is a German. Do you make him sound British? American? The way Brits spoke in 1945?

agree  Hilary Davies Shelby: i think Prissy is great, and seems more like something a 14 yr old would say than "prudish"
2 days18 hrs

agree  Marcus Malabad: this takes my vote; and for N.American audiences, change 'nit' to 'twit' making "prissy lil twit"
3 days18 hrs
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3 hrs   confidence: Answerer confidence 5/5 peer agreement (net): +1
prüde Ziege
prudish little ninny


Explanation:
Double whammy. Not just prudish, but silly also, is what the German conveys.

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Note added at 3 hrs 42 mins (2004-01-18 16:13:32 GMT)
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As indicated in response to Ian\'s response, I doubt whether a 5-year-old would even understand the word, \"prude.\"

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Note added at 3 days 4 hrs 19 mins (2004-01-21 16:50:36 GMT)
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billy goat, nanny goat --> ninny

Maureen Holm, J.D., LL.M.
United States
Local time: 04:35
Native speaker of: Native in EnglishEnglish
PRO pts in pair: 986

Peer comments on this answer (and responses from the answerer)
neutral  Gareth McMillan: Not important that she understands it- he obviously does. Not everybody I insult necessarily understands the words I use (maybe just as well!).
16 mins
  -> Your point goes to the explanation, not the answer. He's trying to persuade her, not tell her off.

neutral  xxxIanW: If a 5-year-old girl won't understand "prude", what makes you think she would understand "prudish"?
1 hr
  -> Idea is that she won't, except in combination / context.

agree  Hilary Davies Shelby: i do like "ninny" as an alternative here - i just wouldnt know much about the slang of that period to determine whether it is appropriate or not. Sounds good though!
2 days19 hrs
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