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Fliedermark

English translation: pith of elder

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GLOSSARY ENTRY (DERIVED FROM QUESTION BELOW)
German term or phrase:Fliedermark
English translation:pith of elder
Entered by: Rachel Ward
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14:50 Feb 15, 2008
German to English translations [PRO]
Art/Literary - Botany
German term or phrase: Fliedermark
I'm proofreading a pre-existing translation of a 19th century novel. The previous translator has put "making a doll out of the pith of elder", which doesn't sound right. I'm not sure what would be better though. Any thoughts?


"Ihr Mädel könnt nicht einmal eine Pfeife machen", verlachte sie Jan.
"Das ist nicht unsere Sache, du machst aber wieder kein solches Hütchen!" sagte Barunka lächelnd, indem sie den Brüdern ein mit Maßblümchen geschmücktes Hütchen aus Erlenlaub zeigte, das sie ganz mittels Tannennadeln zusammengesteckt hatte.
"Hm, das ist eine Kunst!" warf der Knabe den Kopf zurück.
"Für mich nicht, aber für dich", lachte Barunka und ging,
noch ein Kleidchen zu dem Hütchen und den Puppenleib
aus **Fliedermark** herzustellen.
Rachel Ward
United Kingdom
Local time: 08:03
pith of elder
Explanation:
I think the translation is right, denn with "Fliedermark" the author means "Holundermark", I guess. "Flieder" is often used for "Holunder", though it is actually a different plant.
Holunder = elder
Mark im Holz = Pith

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Note added at 1 hr (2008-02-15 16:04:07 GMT)
--------------------------------------------------

"making the body of a doll from the pith of elder" is another suggestion.

--------------------------------------------------
Note added at 4 hrs (2008-02-15 19:09:40 GMT)
--------------------------------------------------

I am quite sure that really elder and not lilac is meant. Elder pith is even used in microscopy, I have found an explanation of a method how to get the pith: http://www.mikroskopie-muenchen.de/handcut.html.
All the references I have found on Google for "Fliedermark" were from old bookds, when probably "Holunder" was still called "Flieder".

--------------------------------------------------
Note added at 17 hrs (2008-02-16 08:43:24 GMT)
--------------------------------------------------

Yes, you can use "Holundermark" for electrostatic experiments, and you can use it for embedding botanical samples into it so it is easier to cut them for microscopy and you can make things from it like dolls ( I seem to remember that my grandmother told me some time that they use it when they were children). And there is definitely a mixup of terms, "Holunder" was used to called "Flieder" in German, as you still can see by the name "Fliederbeersuppe", which is made from the juice of "Holunderbeeren".
Here are some quotations:

Here is part of the text in the link: "Das Holundermark
Die Einbettung in Holundermark ist beinahe so alt wie die botanische Mikrotechnik selbst. Umso merkwürdiger ist, daß viele Mikroskopiker, auch solche, die schon mehrmals Holundermark benützt haben, noch nie welches gesammelt bzw. es nach dem ersten fehlgeschlagenen Versuch aufgegeben haben. Das soll nicht verwundern, denn selbst der Altmeister des botanischen Handschnitts, Rudolf LINDAUER, gibt in Die Technik des Handschnittes. (Mikrokosmos 61, 1972, 144-151) eine irreführende Arbeitsanleitung. "Aus vorjährigen Zweigen", heißt es da. Kein Wunder, daß man das nicht ein zweites Mal versucht. Man sammelt jedoch nicht "Zweige", sondern die abgestorbenen Wasserschößlinge! "

And here is a text about Holunder fom Wiki:
"Der Schwarze Holunder (Sambucus nigra), auch bekannt als Holderbusch oder Holler, ist ein Strauch aus der Gattung Holunder (Sambucus).
Seine Früchte bezeichnet man auch als Fliederbeeren, was auf seinen lange in Deutschland gebräuchlichen Namen „Flieder“ zurückzuführen ist, der erst spät auf den heutigen Flieder (Syringa) überging. "
Selected response from:

Dr. Johanna Schmitt
Germany
Local time: 09:03
Grading comment
Thanks Johanna!
4 KudoZ points were awarded for this answer

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Summary of answers provided
3 +2pith of elder
Dr. Johanna Schmitt


Discussion entries: 4





  

Answers


17 mins   confidence: Answerer confidence 3/5Answerer confidence 3/5 peer agreement (net): +2
pith of elder


Explanation:
I think the translation is right, denn with "Fliedermark" the author means "Holundermark", I guess. "Flieder" is often used for "Holunder", though it is actually a different plant.
Holunder = elder
Mark im Holz = Pith

--------------------------------------------------
Note added at 1 hr (2008-02-15 16:04:07 GMT)
--------------------------------------------------

"making the body of a doll from the pith of elder" is another suggestion.

--------------------------------------------------
Note added at 4 hrs (2008-02-15 19:09:40 GMT)
--------------------------------------------------

I am quite sure that really elder and not lilac is meant. Elder pith is even used in microscopy, I have found an explanation of a method how to get the pith: http://www.mikroskopie-muenchen.de/handcut.html.
All the references I have found on Google for "Fliedermark" were from old bookds, when probably "Holunder" was still called "Flieder".

--------------------------------------------------
Note added at 17 hrs (2008-02-16 08:43:24 GMT)
--------------------------------------------------

Yes, you can use "Holundermark" for electrostatic experiments, and you can use it for embedding botanical samples into it so it is easier to cut them for microscopy and you can make things from it like dolls ( I seem to remember that my grandmother told me some time that they use it when they were children). And there is definitely a mixup of terms, "Holunder" was used to called "Flieder" in German, as you still can see by the name "Fliederbeersuppe", which is made from the juice of "Holunderbeeren".
Here are some quotations:

Here is part of the text in the link: "Das Holundermark
Die Einbettung in Holundermark ist beinahe so alt wie die botanische Mikrotechnik selbst. Umso merkwürdiger ist, daß viele Mikroskopiker, auch solche, die schon mehrmals Holundermark benützt haben, noch nie welches gesammelt bzw. es nach dem ersten fehlgeschlagenen Versuch aufgegeben haben. Das soll nicht verwundern, denn selbst der Altmeister des botanischen Handschnitts, Rudolf LINDAUER, gibt in Die Technik des Handschnittes. (Mikrokosmos 61, 1972, 144-151) eine irreführende Arbeitsanleitung. "Aus vorjährigen Zweigen", heißt es da. Kein Wunder, daß man das nicht ein zweites Mal versucht. Man sammelt jedoch nicht "Zweige", sondern die abgestorbenen Wasserschößlinge! "

And here is a text about Holunder fom Wiki:
"Der Schwarze Holunder (Sambucus nigra), auch bekannt als Holderbusch oder Holler, ist ein Strauch aus der Gattung Holunder (Sambucus).
Seine Früchte bezeichnet man auch als Fliederbeeren, was auf seinen lange in Deutschland gebräuchlichen Namen „Flieder“ zurückzuführen ist, der erst spät auf den heutigen Flieder (Syringa) überging. "


Dr. Johanna Schmitt
Germany
Local time: 09:03
Specializes in field
Native speaker of: Native in GermanGerman
PRO pts in category: 16
Grading comment
Thanks Johanna!

Peer comments on this answer (and responses from the answerer)
agree  Erika Berrai-Flynn: http://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Schwarzer_Holunder
3 hrs
  -> Thank you, Erika!

agree  David Moore: I think maybe I've justified it for you; I'm still a mite puzzled WHY the writer should have used "Flieder", rather than "Holunder"; I do now realise there is a certain crossover of the terms, but it's wrong, IMO, and was, even the 19th. century...
17 hrs
  -> yes, thank you, David! I have added another explanation and some quotations in the note area, sorry that you could not open the link I quoted. I hope I gave appropriate explanation now. Thank you again!
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