German: FliedermarkEnglish translation: pith of elder 
KudoZ The KudoZ network provides a framework for translators ... More  |
|
German to English translations [PRO]
Art/Literary - Botany | | German term or phrase: Fliedermark | I'm proofreading a pre-existing translation of a 19th century novel. The previous translator has put "making a doll out of the pith of elder", which doesn't sound right. I'm not sure what would be better though. Any thoughts?
"Ihr Mädel könnt nicht einmal eine Pfeife machen", verlachte sie Jan.
"Das ist nicht unsere Sache, du machst aber wieder kein solches Hütchen!" sagte Barunka lächelnd, indem sie den Brüdern ein mit Maßblümchen geschmücktes Hütchen aus Erlenlaub zeigte, das sie ganz mittels Tannennadeln zusammengesteckt hatte.
"Hm, das ist eine Kunst!" warf der Knabe den Kopf zurück.
"Für mich nicht, aber für dich", lachte Barunka und ging,
noch ein Kleidchen zu dem Hütchen und den Puppenleib
aus **Fliedermark** herzustellen. |
| | Clarification request(s) and responseDavid Moore: 8:09am Feb 16, 2008: Ummmm... Johanna, I'm still not convinced by elder; afraid I cannot get into the site you give - I get to "http://www.mikroskopie-muenchen.de/", though; where do I go from there? One problem I have is that lilac and elder belong to different families, and
David Moore: 8:12am Feb 16, 2008: there is no suggestion that the names have been (inter)changed or confused, as they are both quite old (well, three centuries or so anyway, and as to using pith from the elder in microscopy - surely that makes it an unlikely condidate for making dolls?
David Moore: 8:26am Feb 16, 2008: The London encyclopaedia, or, Universal dictionary of science, ... - Google Books Result
1839
Electrometers constructed of pith of elder were employed by Mr. Cavallo in many of his experiments in electricity, particularly in those on the electricity ...
books.google.com/books?id=-Xdpb9HKbLIC...
David Moore: 8:29am Feb 16, 2008: http://books.google.com/books?id=-Xdpb9HKbLIC&pg=PA36&lpg=PA...
This site appears to quell my doubts that "pith of elder" could have been used in that way.
|
|
| | pith of elder | Explanation:
I think the translation is right, denn with "Fliedermark" the author means "Holundermark", I guess. "Flieder" is often used for "Holunder", though it is actually a different plant.
Holunder = elder
Mark im Holz = Pith
--------------------------------------------------
Note added at 1 hr (2008-02-15 16:04:07 GMT)
--------------------------------------------------
"making the body of a doll from the pith of elder" is another suggestion.
--------------------------------------------------
Note added at 4 hrs (2008-02-15 19:09:40 GMT)
--------------------------------------------------
I am quite sure that really elder and not lilac is meant. Elder pith is even used in microscopy, I have found an explanation of a method how to get the pith: http://www.mikroskopie-muenchen.de/handcut.html.
All the references I have found on Google for "Fliedermark" were from old bookds, when probably "Holunder" was still called "Flieder".
--------------------------------------------------
Note added at 17 hrs (2008-02-16 08:43:24 GMT)
--------------------------------------------------
Yes, you can use "Holundermark" for electrostatic experiments, and you can use it for embedding botanical samples into it so it is easier to cut them for microscopy and you can make things from it like dolls ( I seem to remember that my grandmother told me some time that they use it when they were children). And there is definitely a mixup of terms, "Holunder" was used to called "Flieder" in German, as you still can see by the name "Fliederbeersuppe", which is made from the juice of "Holunderbeeren".
Here are some quotations:
Here is part of the text in the link: "Das Holundermark
Die Einbettung in Holundermark ist beinahe so alt wie die botanische Mikrotechnik selbst. Umso merkwürdiger ist, daß viele Mikroskopiker, auch solche, die schon mehrmals Holundermark benützt haben, noch nie welches gesammelt bzw. es nach dem ersten fehlgeschlagenen Versuch aufgegeben haben. Das soll nicht verwundern, denn selbst der Altmeister des botanischen Handschnitts, Rudolf LINDAUER, gibt in Die Technik des Handschnittes. (Mikrokosmos 61, 1972, 144-151) eine irreführende Arbeitsanleitung. "Aus vorjährigen Zweigen", heißt es da. Kein Wunder, daß man das nicht ein zweites Mal versucht. Man sammelt jedoch nicht "Zweige", sondern die abgestorbenen Wasserschößlinge! "
And here is a text about Holunder fom Wiki:
"Der Schwarze Holunder (Sambucus nigra), auch bekannt als Holderbusch oder Holler, ist ein Strauch aus der Gattung Holunder (Sambucus).
Seine Früchte bezeichnet man auch als Fliederbeeren, was auf seinen lange in Deutschland gebräuchlichen Namen „Flieder“ zurückzuführen ist, der erst spät auf den heutigen Flieder (Syringa) überging. "
|
| Selected response from:
 Dr. Johanna Schmitt
Germany
| Note from asker to answererThanks Johanna!
4 KudoZ points were awarded for this answer |
|
17 mins confidence:   peer agreement (net): +2 |
| pith of elder
Explanation:
I think the translation is right, denn with "Fliedermark" the author means "Holundermark", I guess. "Flieder" is often used for "Holunder", though it is actually a different plant.
Holunder = elder
Mark im Holz = Pith
--------------------------------------------------
Note added at 1 hr (2008-02-15 16:04:07 GMT)
--------------------------------------------------
"making the body of a doll from the pith of elder" is another suggestion.
--------------------------------------------------
Note added at 4 hrs (2008-02-15 19:09:40 GMT)
--------------------------------------------------
I am quite sure that really elder and not lilac is meant. Elder pith is even used in microscopy, I have found an explanation of a method how to get the pith: http://www.mikroskopie-muenchen.de/handcut.html.
All the references I have found on Google for "Fliedermark" were from old bookds, when probably "Holunder" was still called "Flieder".
--------------------------------------------------
Note added at 17 hrs (2008-02-16 08:43:24 GMT)
--------------------------------------------------
Yes, you can use "Holundermark" for electrostatic experiments, and you can use it for embedding botanical samples into it so it is easier to cut them for microscopy and you can make things from it like dolls ( I seem to remember that my grandmother told me some time that they use it when they were children). And there is definitely a mixup of terms, "Holunder" was used to called "Flieder" in German, as you still can see by the name "Fliederbeersuppe", which is made from the juice of "Holunderbeeren".
Here are some quotations:
Here is part of the text in the link: "Das Holundermark
Die Einbettung in Holundermark ist beinahe so alt wie die botanische Mikrotechnik selbst. Umso merkwürdiger ist, daß viele Mikroskopiker, auch solche, die schon mehrmals Holundermark benützt haben, noch nie welches gesammelt bzw. es nach dem ersten fehlgeschlagenen Versuch aufgegeben haben. Das soll nicht verwundern, denn selbst der Altmeister des botanischen Handschnitts, Rudolf LINDAUER, gibt in Die Technik des Handschnittes. (Mikrokosmos 61, 1972, 144-151) eine irreführende Arbeitsanleitung. "Aus vorjährigen Zweigen", heißt es da. Kein Wunder, daß man das nicht ein zweites Mal versucht. Man sammelt jedoch nicht "Zweige", sondern die abgestorbenen Wasserschößlinge! "
And here is a text about Holunder fom Wiki:
"Der Schwarze Holunder (Sambucus nigra), auch bekannt als Holderbusch oder Holler, ist ein Strauch aus der Gattung Holunder (Sambucus).
Seine Früchte bezeichnet man auch als Fliederbeeren, was auf seinen lange in Deutschland gebräuchlichen Namen „Flieder“ zurückzuführen ist, der erst spät auf den heutigen Flieder (Syringa) überging. "
| | Note from asker to answerer |
Return to KudoZ list
|
| |
The translation workplace 
