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mit sich als Vertreter eines Dritten

English translation: with himself as the (legal) representative of a third party

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13:31 Mar 14, 2007
German to English translations [PRO]
Bus/Financial - Business/Commerce (general) / Handelsregisterauszug
German term or phrase: mit sich als Vertreter eines Dritten
Geschäftsführer: xy. Einzelvertretungsberechtigt; mit der Befugnis, im Namen der Gesellschaft *** mit sich als Vertreter eines Dritten *** Rechtsgeschäfte abzuschließen.
xxxssp-trans
English translation:with himself as the (legal) representative of a third party
Explanation:
xy is given the power to act in a dual representative capacity: (1)Acting by himself, he has the general power to enter into legal transactions on behalf of the company***. (2) He is given the additional power to enter, on behalf of ***, into legal transactions with a third party even where xy is acting as the authorized representative of such third party (and, therefore, for example, signs the agreement between *** and the third party, for xy and also the third party. But in each case, xy would not be acting in his personal capacity (and not be personally bound) but rather in his representative capacity for *** and the third party.
Selected response from:

Axel Seyler
Local time: 17:02
Grading comment
Thank you
4 KudoZ points were awarded for this answer

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Summary of answers provided
4 +1with himself as the (legal) representative of a third partyAxel Seyler
3with oneself, on behalf of the company, as a represenative of a third party
Bernhard Sulzer
2conclude a legal transaction 'with himself'.
Jon Fedler


  

Answers


1 hr   confidence: Answerer confidence 2/5Answerer confidence 2/5
conclude a legal transaction 'with himself'.


Explanation:
A bit confusing without the full text. Sounds like xy holds one definite and one theoretical function i.e.: (a)he is already the holder of the sole right/power of representation for the (unnamed) party and (b) he could also, at the same time, and in a certain situation, represente of a third party. So he could "conclude a legal transaction between (a) and (b) i.e.'with himself'.

Jon Fedler
Local time: 00:02
Specializes in field
Native speaker of: English
PRO pts in category: 14
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2 hrs   confidence: Answerer confidence 4/5Answerer confidence 4/5 peer agreement (net): +1
with himself as the (legal) representative of a third party


Explanation:
xy is given the power to act in a dual representative capacity: (1)Acting by himself, he has the general power to enter into legal transactions on behalf of the company***. (2) He is given the additional power to enter, on behalf of ***, into legal transactions with a third party even where xy is acting as the authorized representative of such third party (and, therefore, for example, signs the agreement between *** and the third party, for xy and also the third party. But in each case, xy would not be acting in his personal capacity (and not be personally bound) but rather in his representative capacity for *** and the third party.

Axel Seyler
Local time: 17:02
Specializes in field
Native speaker of: Native in GermanGerman
PRO pts in category: 12
Grading comment
Thank you

Peer comments on this answer (and responses from the answerer)
agree  Bernhard Sulzer: yes, xy is not acting on his own behalf, but the company's and the third party's
3 hrs
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6 hrs   confidence: Answerer confidence 3/5Answerer confidence 3/5
with oneself, on behalf of the company, as a represenative of a third party


Explanation:
I think it's important to add in the part that comes first , in German:
"im Namen der Gesellschaft" otherwise it sounds like you are actually allowed to do that for yourself, as a private person, and I don't think that's possible.

http://www.answers.com/topic/law-of-germany

Finally the law states that an Insichgeschäft (transaction with oneself) is not valid (§ 181). An Insichgeschäft is given when the agent makes a legal transaction either with oneself, or with the legal entity he works for on the one side and himself on the other side. For example A, the confidential clerk of company B, makes an agreement as proxy of B with himself as A to arise his salary. Strictly applied that rule would also not allow parents to give any presents to their children (they would have to make a contract with themselves as parents on the one side and as legal proxies of their children on the other side). Yet for such cases the norm is reduced teologically in order not to overstep its own reason for being (teleologische Reduktion).



http://www.utexas.edu/law/academics/centers/transnational/wo...

Bürgerliches Gesetzbuch:
§ 181 Transactions with oneself
An agent cannot, except in so far as he is permitted to do otherwise, undertake a legal transaction in the name of the principal with himself in his own name or as agent of a third party, unless the transaction is exclusively in fulfilment of a commitment.



http://www.medwork-online.com/agb/
conclude a legal transaction/ Rechtsgeschäfte abschließen

http://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Insichgeschäft
Insich-Geschäft

http://www.frankfurt-main.ihk.de/recht/themen/handelsrecht/v...
die Vertretung im Handelsrecht


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Note added at 6 hrs (2007-03-14 19:45:30 GMT)
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typo alert: should read: ...as a represen*t*ative...

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Note added at 7 hrs (2007-03-14 20:48:15 GMT)
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PS: with my entry, I only want to draw attention to the fact that "on behalf of the company" is tied very closely with "oneself" - other than that, Alex already explained it in his posting.
I also tried to include a few helpful links.

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Note added at 7 hrs (2007-03-14 20:48:53 GMT)
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..tied to.../tied in with..

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Note added at 9 hrs (2007-03-14 23:02:23 GMT)
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sorry, Axel for misspelling your name!

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Note added at 9 hrs (2007-03-14 23:02:37 GMT)
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sorry, Axel, for misspelling your name!

Bernhard Sulzer
United States
Local time: 17:02
Specializes in field
Native speaker of: Native in GermanGerman
PRO pts in category: 51
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