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German to English translations [PRO] Medical - Certificates, Diplomas, Licenses, CVs / Titel
German term or phrase:PD Dr. med.
Ich möchte nochmals die Frage nach der Übersetzung des Begriffs "Privatdozent" im medizinischen Bereich aufwerfen, weil ich die bisherigen Antworten, insbesondere solche, die den Begriff "lecturer" beinhalten, für nicht besonders adäquat halte. Es gibt in Deutschland viele Mediziner, die habilitiert haben, mit Unis, Plantstellen und regelmässigen Vorträgen nichts am Hut haben, ihnen steht der Titel aber als Nachweis "besserer" Qualifikationen zu als bei einem normalen Dr. med. der Fall zu. Ein medizinischer Privatdozent hat also abstrakt eine Lehrbefugnis, strebt oft aber gar keine Professur an, sondern hat eine privat Praxis und wirbt quasi mit seinem Titel aufgrund der wissenschaftlich fundierteren Ausbildung. Daher finde ich auch die Begriffe "assistant Professor" nicht so gut. Gibt es doch noch einen anderen Lösungsvorschlag?
Explanation: As there is apparently no equivalent term in English, IMO this is something that you have to deal with on a case-by-case basis as appropriate to the situation. In this regard, you should bear in mind that people in English-speaking countries are generally much less 'title conscious' than people in German-speaking countries, and titles are often omitted in relatively informal contexts (where 'relatively' covers a broad scale). In a context where the fact that the person holds the title of Privatdozent matters -- for example, in a formal academic context or (possibly) a legal context -- it should be used as is. If the target audience can be expected to know what Privatdozent means, nothing more is necessary; otherwise an explanation can be provided as appropriate.
In a situation where the title does not matter -- which IMO includes the bills for professional services sent by someone who practices medicine and holds the PD title but rarely if ever lectures at a university -- it can be lomitted, although there's no harm in leaving it as is -- but you shouldn't try to represent someone who never sets foot in a university as a lecturer or professor of any sort.
Common practice in English-speaking countries is to use only titles that are relevant to the situation. For example, a physician who has an MD degree as well as an MA in Art would use 'MD' in ordinary correspondence related to her medical practice, but 'MA' (or possibly even MD, MA) if she contributed articles to an art journal, and would probably omit both titles if she wrote a letter to the principal of the local school about a problem with one of her childeren enrolled in the school. Particularly in the USA, the use of titles in situations where they are generally considered irrelevant is often regarded as ostentatious.
-------------------------------------------------- Note added at 6 hrs (2008-08-30 15:53:04 GMT) --------------------------------------------------
With regard to your example of a report, IMO a professor in France can be expected to know the meaning of Privatdozent or to make the effort to find out what it means, so the title should not be translated. As lindaellen and I have both suggested, it is difficult to impossible to avoid distorting the meaning or misrepresenting the situation if you attempt to translate the term.
-------------------------------------------------- Note added at 6 hrs (2008-08-30 15:57:41 GMT) --------------------------------------------------
I also agree with Nicholas's 'clarification' comments. In this regard it is much better to leave 'Privatdozent' as than to attempt to translate it, because anyone who is aware of what the title effectively means will give it the respect it deserves.
-------------------------------------------------- Note added at 6 hrs (2008-08-30 15:58:37 GMT) --------------------------------------------------
Sorry -- that last bit should read 'it is much better to leave 'Privatdozent' as is than to...'.
Finally, a reasonable thought! By the way, what does "used to study" mean? No degree? ;-) I didn't take anything personally and neither did I brag. To finish this ridiculous exchange: professor is said to be mostly a job rather than a title in Germany.
I don´t understand why you take it so personal. BTW, I used to study at the Columbia which is even more prestigous than the NYU...;-), but this is not the point here. Like there is a clear difference in the ranking between a "simple" MD and a full professor in the whole world, in many European countries there is another clear difference in the ranking between a "simple" MD, the PD being the next step and the professor title. Expierence, talents etc. don´t have anything to do with a formal question of having a specific title or no. Meanwhile I think that is easier to exchange PD with "Dr. habil". which almost every person with an academic background in the world should understand, regardless if it exists in his country or not.
By the way, would you care to explain what a "simple MD" means to you? There is NOTHING simple about becoming an MD and a Consultant in particular. Academic titles are loved and cherished in Germany, Austria, etc., but experience and talent beat them all.
and I suggested a "prestigious" title. If you keep riding on dissertations and other details you will never find anything that matches a PD because it does not exist. Either add an explanation (you are excellent at that) or be happy with what's there.
Thank you for the (unnecessary) lecture. I do not advertise the fact, but my full title is Dr. med. (HH Uni) followed by this & that culminating in a Ph.D. (NYU). The German concept does NOT exist in the Englis-speaking world. You asked for "prestige"...
Read this, maybe you will understand the background better. ANYBODY can be a "consultant" in a hospital, even a simple MD, but not ANYBODY can call himself Privat-Dozent: "Habilitation is the highest academic qualification a person can achieve by their own pursuit in certain European and Asian countries. Earned after obtaining a doctorate, the habilitation requires the candidate to write a second dissertation, reviewed by and defended before an academic committee in a process similar to that for the doctoral dissertation. Sometimes a book publication is required for the defence to take place. Whereas in the United States, the United Kingdom and most other countries, the doctorate is sufficient qualification for a faculty position at a university, in other countries only the habilitation qualifies the holder to supervise doctoral candidates. Such a post is known in Germany as Privatdozent and there are similarly termed posts elsewhere. After service as a Privatdozent, one may be admitted to the faculty as a professor."
I stress the stence: "habilitation requires the candidate to write a SECOND dissertation"
Why don't you use the British HOSPITAL titles? Call him a "CONSULTANT" and the entire UKE-speaking world will know what that means. A consultabt usually works in a hospital, but also has a private practice. Academic titles have no bearing on consultancy.
If none of the suggested synonyms fit your context, give us a hint at least. How should we express the idea 'below the academic title of a full professor' in terms of prestige? What's to be pointed out?
Es geht mir hier NICHT um einen habilitierten Germanisten, der eine minderwertige Stelle an der Uni hat und jahrzehntelang auf eine Professur wartet. Bei den Medizinern gibt es jede Menge Privatdozenten außerhalb der Uni, mit Privatpraxen, die nur ab und zu pro Forma eine Vortrag irgendwo halten. Es geht nur um Prestige "Similar positions exist in other countries touched by the German university tradition. In Russia, Serbia, Poland, Czech Republic, Slovakia, Bulgaria, and Hungary, as in Turkey, it is an academic title immediately below that of a full professor"
Automatic update in 00:
Answers
13 mins confidence: peer agreement (net): +2
associate professor
Explanation: Privatdozent, synonyms to privatdozenttutor, privatdocent, privatdozent, advise, assistant, assistant professor, associate, associate professor, coach, coacher, cram, cram with facts, crammer, ... synonyms24.com/to/privatdozent/
Сергей Лузан Russian Federation Local time: 11:56 Specializes in field Native speaker of: Russian PRO pts in category: 8
Notes to answerer
Asker: sergey, prochitay tochno shto ja sprosil....;-)
Asker: There is no specific context: it is just a title you use normally with your name in Germany when sending bills, writing medical reports etc., like
PD Dr. med. J. Schmidt
Everybody in Germany knows than, that this person is not a university professort but more than a normal MD, if he gives lectures somewhere or not, is on the contrary not important at all.
14 mins confidence: peer agreement (net): +2
see wiki article
Explanation: This article in English discusses the problem from an Anglophone perspective using the appropriate English vocabulary. Essentially, the problem is that the "PD institution" is only found in the German-speaking world. In any case, this is the best explanation that I have seen.
-------------------------------------------------- Note added at 2 hrs (2008-08-30 11:34:17 GMT) --------------------------------------------------
"Docent" is also used in the US, it often refers to a well-educated museum guide. In Switzerland "Dozent" is used for teachers at Fachhochschule who do not have Ph.ds, but other qualifications. The "Privat Dozent" has a Ph.d and a Habilitation (a major publication which has been approved of by a university- not just prestige) - that's the difference and the language problem. Sorry, can't help any further.
lindaellen (X) Native speaker of: English PRO pts in category: 11
Notes to answerer
Asker: I am a Polish native speaker and the term "docent" is widely used there as well. And especially referring to MDs: they usually do not have the ambition to work ever as a professor at a university hospital. It is just a "status symbol"
2 hrs confidence:
Visiting lecturer
Explanation: I've come across this term in science too. German academic titles are very difficult to translate - in some cases there is simple neither the word nor the concept (usually egoistic) to match the German.
A PD as described is a visiting lecturer. British and Irish Universities have many, but they don't carry titles and are simply called visiting lecturers.
Asker: But isn´t is so that a "visiting lecturer" doesn´t necessary has to have the title as "Dr. HABIL.",
the carreer path in Germany is: MA->PhD->Dr. habil. (=Privatdozent)->(full) professor-
Explanation: As there is apparently no equivalent term in English, IMO this is something that you have to deal with on a case-by-case basis as appropriate to the situation. In this regard, you should bear in mind that people in English-speaking countries are generally much less 'title conscious' than people in German-speaking countries, and titles are often omitted in relatively informal contexts (where 'relatively' covers a broad scale). In a context where the fact that the person holds the title of Privatdozent matters -- for example, in a formal academic context or (possibly) a legal context -- it should be used as is. If the target audience can be expected to know what Privatdozent means, nothing more is necessary; otherwise an explanation can be provided as appropriate.
In a situation where the title does not matter -- which IMO includes the bills for professional services sent by someone who practices medicine and holds the PD title but rarely if ever lectures at a university -- it can be lomitted, although there's no harm in leaving it as is -- but you shouldn't try to represent someone who never sets foot in a university as a lecturer or professor of any sort.
Common practice in English-speaking countries is to use only titles that are relevant to the situation. For example, a physician who has an MD degree as well as an MA in Art would use 'MD' in ordinary correspondence related to her medical practice, but 'MA' (or possibly even MD, MA) if she contributed articles to an art journal, and would probably omit both titles if she wrote a letter to the principal of the local school about a problem with one of her childeren enrolled in the school. Particularly in the USA, the use of titles in situations where they are generally considered irrelevant is often regarded as ostentatious.
-------------------------------------------------- Note added at 6 hrs (2008-08-30 15:53:04 GMT) --------------------------------------------------
With regard to your example of a report, IMO a professor in France can be expected to know the meaning of Privatdozent or to make the effort to find out what it means, so the title should not be translated. As lindaellen and I have both suggested, it is difficult to impossible to avoid distorting the meaning or misrepresenting the situation if you attempt to translate the term.
-------------------------------------------------- Note added at 6 hrs (2008-08-30 15:57:41 GMT) --------------------------------------------------
I also agree with Nicholas's 'clarification' comments. In this regard it is much better to leave 'Privatdozent' as than to attempt to translate it, because anyone who is aware of what the title effectively means will give it the respect it deserves.
-------------------------------------------------- Note added at 6 hrs (2008-08-30 15:58:37 GMT) --------------------------------------------------
Sorry -- that last bit should read 'it is much better to leave 'Privatdozent' as is than to...'.
Ken Cox Local time: 10:56 Native speaker of: English PRO pts in category: 7
Notes to answerer
Asker: It is a very good point, and my example with the bill was not the best, but this title might be important, if you translate a medical report from Germany which has to be analyzed by a professor in France for example.
The information about a higher academic position of the German MD might have an influence on the willingness to accept his findings by a high-rank MD in another country.
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peer agreement (net): +2
