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Fachabitur

English translation: polytechnic entrance certificate

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GLOSSARY ENTRY (DERIVED FROM QUESTION BELOW)
German term or phrase:Fachabitur
English translation:polytechnic entrance certificate
Entered by: Louise Mawbey
Options:
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- Include in personal glossary

16:18 Mar 12, 2002
German to English translations [PRO]
Tech/Engineering - Education / Pedagogy
German term or phrase: Fachabitur
A qualification taken by a man who has first of all been an apprentice machine fitter.
Louise Mawbey
Germany
Local time: 16:53
a reference
Explanation:
Hi there,

I don't know exactly what it would be but after some research came across a site that might be of interest explaining what this type of "Fachabitur" actually is and help you translated the term.

Have a look at:
http://www.max-taut-schule.de/abt1/dq_flyer.htm

I like e-rich's idea of bringing in "vocational" but I think it might be necessary to give a longer explanation as qualifications are often country-specific.

HTH

--------------------------------------------------
Note added at 2002-03-12 16:48:01 (GMT)
--------------------------------------------------

Actually, I\'ve been mulling this over. When I was at uni, we translated our \"Abiturzeugnis\" and translated the qualification as \"university entrance certificate\" which is nice and general but conveys the idea very well. A person with a \"Fachabitur\" has gained the qualification to do a course at a polytechnic (well, that\'s what they used to be called in the UK), not at university. As you don\'t state where your target audience is, you\'ll have to decide whether polytechnic is appropriate but you could still use something like \"### entrance certificate\" and explain how the person reached that qualification in a footnote of wherever is appropriate in your translation.
HTH
Selected response from:

Rebekka Groß
Local time: 15:53
Grading comment
Thanks for your most helpful answer and to everyone for a very interesting debate. Have chosen this for a UK English audience.
4 KudoZ points were awarded for this answer

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Summary of answers provided
4 +3a referenceRebekka Groß
5journeyman ticket/certificateMichael Sebold
4Trade Testsingot
4high school diploma with a specific majorIrene De Han
4high school diploma in a specialized field (U.S.)Erik Macki
4 -1vocational baccalaureat diploma
swisstell
4 -1Bachelor's degree in mechanical engineeringgangels
5 -2I must disagree with everyone here...xxxsixxxter1
Summary of reference entries provided
subject-restricted university [higher education] entrance qualification
Johanna Timm, PhD

  

Answers


3 mins   confidence: Answerer confidence 4/5Answerer confidence 4/5
high school diploma in a specialized field (U.S.)


Explanation:
For a North American target audience, a good translation for this concept is:

high school diploma in a specialized field

The concept doesn't truly exist outside Germany, so the goal is simply to make the credential more or less understandable to English speakers.

--------------------------------------------------
Note added at 2002-03-12 20:09:58 (GMT)
--------------------------------------------------

If you want to include an emphasis on a trade, you phrase it, \"high school diploma with a vocational specialization\" or something along those lines.


    ATA accredited
Erik Macki
Local time: 07:53
Native speaker of: English
PRO pts in category: 19

Peer comments on this answer (and responses from the answerer)
disagree  swisstell: this here refers to a trade
1 min
  -> Well, in the U.S. that'd be a specialized high school diploma. Abitur is a credential corresponding to graduation exam, or high school diploma.

agree  Endre Both
43 mins
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11 mins   confidence: Answerer confidence 4/5Answerer confidence 4/5 peer agreement (net): -1
vocational baccalaureat diploma


Explanation:
ref. report on social development of the CEC, 1988
PS: it is Abitur...

swisstell
Italy
Local time: 16:53
Native speaker of: German
PRO pts in category: 32

Peer comments on this answer (and responses from the answerer)
disagree  Erik Macki: This is a cited source, but a "baccalaureat" in English corresponds to four years of university/college study, which is closer to a Vordiplom in English than an Abitur.
17 mins
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15 mins   confidence: Answerer confidence 4/5Answerer confidence 4/5 peer agreement (net): +3
a reference


Explanation:
Hi there,

I don't know exactly what it would be but after some research came across a site that might be of interest explaining what this type of "Fachabitur" actually is and help you translated the term.

Have a look at:
http://www.max-taut-schule.de/abt1/dq_flyer.htm

I like e-rich's idea of bringing in "vocational" but I think it might be necessary to give a longer explanation as qualifications are often country-specific.

HTH

--------------------------------------------------
Note added at 2002-03-12 16:48:01 (GMT)
--------------------------------------------------

Actually, I\'ve been mulling this over. When I was at uni, we translated our \"Abiturzeugnis\" and translated the qualification as \"university entrance certificate\" which is nice and general but conveys the idea very well. A person with a \"Fachabitur\" has gained the qualification to do a course at a polytechnic (well, that\'s what they used to be called in the UK), not at university. As you don\'t state where your target audience is, you\'ll have to decide whether polytechnic is appropriate but you could still use something like \"### entrance certificate\" and explain how the person reached that qualification in a footnote of wherever is appropriate in your translation.
HTH

Rebekka Groß
Local time: 15:53
Native speaker of: German
PRO pts in category: 4
Grading comment
Thanks for your most helpful answer and to everyone for a very interesting debate. Have chosen this for a UK English audience.

Peer comments on this answer (and responses from the answerer)
agree  Ralf Lemster: No easy way out here... make sure to include the German term!
40 mins

agree  Erik Macki: I like "university entrance certificate" a lot. One could add something like "with vocational emphasis" to get the "Fach-" part of "Fachabitur" across.
3 hrs

agree  Barbara Schulten, MSc (OXON), DPSI
3 hrs
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17 mins   confidence: Answerer confidence 4/5Answerer confidence 4/5
high school diploma with a specific major


Explanation:
such as machine fitting. An Abitur is more than just an apprenticeship. So I agree with Erick Macki in that it is indeed a high school diploma, involving a lot of subjects and additionally specializing in a major field.

Irene De Han
Local time: 10:53
Works in field
Native speaker of: Native in GermanGerman

Peer comments on this answer (and responses from the answerer)
agree  Erik Macki
3 hrs

disagree  Michael Sebold: Sorry, Irene, but an apprenticeship in Canada in the US is more than a high school diploma - indeed, from what I know, a highschool diploma is needed in order to pursue a trade certification.
5 hrs
  -> Indeed we can continue to throw around terminology, but the fact remains that the educational system in Germany is very different from the U.S As a matter of fact you don't even need a high school diploma to pursue an apprenticeship in Germany!
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44 mins   confidence: Answerer confidence 5/5 peer agreement (net): -2
I must disagree with everyone here...


Explanation:
I am a native American, who has lived in Germany for 15 years. There is no correct translation for this one! You can't compare two such completely different cultures in such a way. What I think you have to consider is maybe the grade level. I could really go deep into this response, but I'm not going to. Just please believe me. I have earned a high school diploma, and completed an apprenticeship in Germany as a Photo Developer(Fotolaborant). No one ask me for my Abitur, they just accepted my high school diploma. Thank you. Douglas Engelbrecht, Schweinfurt, Germany

xxxsixxxter1
Native speaker of: Native in EnglishEnglish

Peer comments on this answer (and responses from the answerer)
disagree  Rebekka Groß: I think you might have gotten the wrong end of the stick here. Check out the reference I gave, there seems to be new breed of Fachabitur you can achieve while doing your apprenticeship.
1 hr

disagree  Erik Macki: One must be careful not to universalize one's experience. Plus, the fact that something is hard to translate exactly isn't an excuse a translator can use: one has to come up with something defensible.
3 hrs
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1 hr   confidence: Answerer confidence 4/5Answerer confidence 4/5
Trade Tests


Explanation:
What you need to take in order to step up from apprentice to qualified tradesman.

ingot

Peer comments on this answer (and responses from the answerer)
neutral  Michael Sebold: Yes, at which point you receive a "certificate" - see below.
2 hrs
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3 hrs   confidence: Answerer confidence 4/5Answerer confidence 4/5 peer agreement (net): -1
Bachelor's degree in mechanical engineering


Explanation:
Since machine fitter falls in the category of mechanical engineering this would be the obvious choice. In the US, a bachelor's degree is what you receive following [generally] 4 years of college. An abitur is called a high school diploma [though I am aware that it involves more study in Germany than here]. The equivalent of Fachabitur is probably a junior college degree from a vocational college [Triton in the Chicago suburbs comes to mind], which requires an extra 2 years following high school graduation and is usually obtained in community colleges rather than standard ones.

gangels
Local time: 08:53
Works in field
Native speaker of: Native in EnglishEnglish, Native in GermanGerman
PRO pts in category: 84

Peer comments on this answer (and responses from the answerer)
neutral  Erik Macki: These are great points, but "bachelors' degree in mechanical engineering" is a bit too conflated to correspond to a "Fachabitur."
4 mins

disagree  Michael Sebold: Sorry, Klaus, but as far as I know a Bachelors degree is granted only by an accredited university, and an Abitur does not correspond to this. Trade certificates and diplomas are what colleges and technical institutes issue.
1 hr
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4 hrs   confidence: Answerer confidence 5/5
journeyman ticket/certificate


Explanation:
In Canada and the US, when you complete your apprenticeship (classroom and work experience), then for the majority of trades you are referred to as a certified journeyman, and the "diploma" is commonly referred to simply as a "ticket" or "certificate." We also often say simply "welder's ticket" or "pipe fitter's ticket."
See the links.
HTH




--------------------------------------------------
Note added at 2002-03-12 21:10:18 (GMT)
--------------------------------------------------

With respect to the whole \"high school\" debate, I went throught that one first-hand when I applied to have my educational history recognized by the German authorities. My high school diploma, which is what every Canadian and American who doesn\'t drop out receives, was NOT recognized as an Abitur. My Bachelor\'s degrees were recognized as FH degrees. So, as Canadian and American high school graduates need to attend either a college or a technical institute in order to get a certified trade specialization, I think the trade certifcate terminology fits with your apprenticeship context.



    Reference: http://www.nait.ab.ca/apprenticeship/trainwork.htm
    Reference: http://pgfb.state.al.us/mgas.htm
Michael Sebold
Canada
Local time: 10:53
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Reference comments


4206 days
Reference: subject-restricted university [higher education] entrance qualification

Reference information:
http://www.wir-sind-bund.de/WSB/EN/Eltern/Bildungssystem/Sch...

Johanna Timm, PhD
Canada
Specializes in field
Native speaker of: Native in GermanGerman
PRO pts in category: 234
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Changes made by editors
Nov 13, 2005 - Changes made by Steffen Walter:
Term askedFacharbitur » Fachabitur
Field (specific)(none) » Education / Pedagogy


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