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Arbeiter vs Angestellte

English translation: Technical staff/clerical staff

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11:11 Mar 15, 2007
German to English translations [PRO]
Bus/Financial - Finance (general) / bank annual report
German term or phrase: Arbeiter vs Angestellte
Hi there,
I have been doing an Annual Report for an Austrian bank and they list their workforce numbers at some stage - there are 10 "Arbeiter" and 100 "Angestellte (ohne Vorstand)". Naively I always thought that Arbeiter were just blue-collar workers but can anyone please tell me if that changes in a banking context or what to make of them. I am hesitating as to whether to call the Angestellte "clerks" or "employees", I suppose slightly depending on what I hear about Arbeiter... Could it possibly be a dodgy abbreviation for Arbeitgeber?
Charles Stanford
Czech Republic
Local time: 05:21
English translation:Technical staff/clerical staff
Explanation:
Perhaps - technical staff being computer engineers, electricians and the like?
Selected response from:

David Moore
Local time: 05:21
Grading comment
Perhaps I should be going for the hourly-paid/salaried solution in view of all those agreement but I am going to select yours David, because it worked best in the context. To my layman's mind, I would get confused and think that hourly-paid employees are temporary employees, even though it sounds like that is not the case in Germany/Austria. Thank you to all of you for your input though. I will not enter this on the glossary because it is a bit of a moot point (and 9/10 translators would not need to check up anyway!)
4 KudoZ points were awarded for this answer

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Summary of answers provided
3 +5hourly-paid and salaried employees
Tim Jenkins
5blue-collar v. white-collar staffTerry Moran
3 +2laborer v. (salaried) employee
Derek Gill Franßen
3Technical staff/clerical staffDavid Moore
3Pemanent vs contract
Lyn Dunk


Discussion entries: 3





  

Answers


9 mins   confidence: Answerer confidence 3/5Answerer confidence 3/5
Technical staff/clerical staff


Explanation:
Perhaps - technical staff being computer engineers, electricians and the like?

David Moore
Local time: 05:21
Native speaker of: Native in EnglishEnglish
PRO pts in category: 178
Grading comment
Perhaps I should be going for the hourly-paid/salaried solution in view of all those agreement but I am going to select yours David, because it worked best in the context. To my layman's mind, I would get confused and think that hourly-paid employees are temporary employees, even though it sounds like that is not the case in Germany/Austria. Thank you to all of you for your input though. I will not enter this on the glossary because it is a bit of a moot point (and 9/10 translators would not need to check up anyway!)
Notes to answerer
Asker: Pretty stupid question really - just a bit over-tired and so could not imagine why there would be so few Arbeiter (suitably ashamed of myself now).


Peer comments on this answer (and responses from the answerer)
agree  writeaway: it's the same in Belgium-basically the blue collar/white collar divide. different types of collective labour agreements. it's different categories of employees.
9 mins

disagree  RobinB: See my comments on Lyn's and Tim's answers.//Not really. Millions of "Arbeiter" still here in Germany (mainly in industry and Handwerk), incl. thousands at banks, e.g. at our own banking customers.
1 hr
  -> Hmmm...little strong, don't you think, to disagree? After all, it's really only the difference between "front-" and "back-of house", and in banks, I thinks, they would all be "regular"? Do remeber most "hourly paid" are in 1-euro jobs here...
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9 mins   confidence: Answerer confidence 3/5Answerer confidence 3/5 peer agreement (net): +5
hourly-paid and salaried employees


Explanation:
My first thought

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Note added at 11 mins (2007-03-15 11:23:58 GMT)
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Would possibly also reflect the distinction between clerical/office staff and unskilled/semi-skilled workers such as cleaning staff, etc.

Tim Jenkins
United Kingdom
Local time: 04:21
Works in field
Native speaker of: Native in EnglishEnglish
PRO pts in category: 12

Peer comments on this answer (and responses from the answerer)
agree  RobinB: Often simply "salaried employees" (Angestellte) and "hourly workers" (Arbeiter). At a bank, these are probably messengers, Hausmeister, that sort of thing.
1 hr

agree  gangels
1 hr

agree  Derek Gill Franßen: Taking Robin's comments to my proposal into account, this is probably the best way to go. :)
1 hr

agree  Julia Lipeles
2 hrs

agree  Michael Engley
3 hrs
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11 mins   confidence: Answerer confidence 3/5Answerer confidence 3/5 peer agreement (net): +2
laborer v. (salaried) employee


Explanation:
...is how I might differentiate it. It shouldn't be too much of a problem, as long as you stay consistent. I do not think that it is a euphemism for "Arbeitgeber" - that'd be a bit of a stretch (IMHO).
:)

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Note added at 14 mins (2007-03-15 11:26:05 GMT)
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Obviously, it should probably be in the plural form.

Derek Gill Franßen
Germany
Local time: 05:21
Specializes in field
Native speaker of: English
PRO pts in category: 119
Notes to answerer
Asker: Pretty stupid question really - just a bit over-tired and so could not imagine why there would be so few Arbeiter (suitably ashamed of myself now) - of course if it is a bank dopey. Thanks for the input though.


Peer comments on this answer (and responses from the answerer)
agree  Ulrike Kraemer: Hello, Derek. Long time no see! :-) Laborers could be cleaners, gardeners, etc.
3 mins
  -> Yes, exactly - that is how I see it too. To me "laborer" denotes all those things like "unskilled" or "manual" without actually saying them. ;) Yeah, I have just been incredibly busy with work the last few months (I forgot what sleep was). ;)

agree  writeaway: blue collar /white collar jobs
8 mins
  -> Yes. Thank you, Writeaway. :)

neutral  RobinB: The standard term for Arbeiter is "hourly worker(s)" or "hourly-paid worker(s)", to distinguish them from salarymen.//Hairdressers and canteen assistants are often Arbeiter, not Angestellten. Would you call them "labourers"?
1 hr
  -> I suppose that would work too, whereby laborers are "usually" paid on an hourly basis. // Point taken (though I doubt a bank will have hairdressers, perhaps cantina workers. But, then again, I don't really see why "laborer" wouldn't work there too. :)
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10 mins   confidence: Answerer confidence 3/5Answerer confidence 3/5
Pemanent vs contract


Explanation:
This could be the difference between permanent employees (Angestellte) and contract emloyees (Arbeiter) who do not fall under the company's headcount.

Just a thought.....

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Note added at 2 hrs (2007-03-15 13:50:58 GMT)
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Oops of course I meant permanent vs contract. Slip of the finger!

Lyn Dunk
New Zealand
Local time: 15:21
Specializes in field
Native speaker of: Native in EnglishEnglish
PRO pts in category: 20

Peer comments on this answer (and responses from the answerer)
agree  xxxFrancis Lee: This is my understanding as well; the Arbeiter would have some kind of Rahmenvertrag but are not actually part of the workforce/ Strange, Robin seems to be agreeing ...
44 mins

disagree  RobinB: No, it really is the difference between employees on a monthly salary and those paid by the hour. Standard Austro-German distinction in these "classless" societies.
1 hr
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1 day23 hrs   confidence: Answerer confidence 5/5
blue-collar v. white-collar staff


Explanation:
You were right the first time.

Terry Moran
France
Local time: 05:21
Specializes in field
Native speaker of: Native in EnglishEnglish
PRO pts in category: 123
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