This site uses cookies. Some of these cookies are essential to the operation of the site, while others help to improve your experience by providing insights into how the site is being used. For more information, please see the ProZ.com privacy policy.
Cookie settings
  1. KudoZ™ Top
  2. German to English
  3. Finance (general)

Arbeiter vs Angestellte

English translation: Technical staff/clerical staff

11:11 Mar 15, 2007
German to English translations [PRO]
Bus/Financial - Finance (general) / bank annual report
German term or phrase: Arbeiter vs Angestellte
Hi there,
I have been doing an Annual Report for an Austrian bank and they list their workforce numbers at some stage - there are 10 "Arbeiter" and 100 "Angestellte (ohne Vorstand)". Naively I always thought that Arbeiter were just blue-collar workers but can anyone please tell me if that changes in a banking context or what to make of them. I am hesitating as to whether to call the Angestellte "clerks" or "employees", I suppose slightly depending on what I hear about Arbeiter... Could it possibly be a dodgy abbreviation for Arbeitgeber?
Charles Stanford
Czech Republic
Local time: 07:16
English translation:Technical staff/clerical staff
Explanation:
Perhaps - technical staff being computer engineers, electricians and the like?
Selected response from:

David Moore (X)
Local time: 07:16
Grading comment
Perhaps I should be going for the hourly-paid/salaried solution in view of all those agreement but I am going to select yours David, because it worked best in the context. To my layman's mind, I would get confused and think that hourly-paid employees are temporary employees, even though it sounds like that is not the case in Germany/Austria. Thank you to all of you for your input though. I will not enter this on the glossary because it is a bit of a moot point (and 9/10 translators would not need to check up anyway!)
4 KudoZ points were awarded for this answer



Summary of answers provided
3 +5hourly-paid and salaried employees
Tim Jenkins
3 +2laborer v. (salaried) employee
Derek Gill Franßen
5blue-collar v. white-collar staff
Terry Moran
3Technical staff/clerical staff
David Moore (X)
3Pemanent vs contract
Lyn Dunk


Discussion entries: 3





  

Answers


9 mins   confidence: Answerer confidence 3/5Answerer confidence 3/5
Technical staff/clerical staff


Explanation:
Perhaps - technical staff being computer engineers, electricians and the like?

David Moore (X)
Local time: 07:16
Native speaker of: English
PRO pts in category: 186
Grading comment
Perhaps I should be going for the hourly-paid/salaried solution in view of all those agreement but I am going to select yours David, because it worked best in the context. To my layman's mind, I would get confused and think that hourly-paid employees are temporary employees, even though it sounds like that is not the case in Germany/Austria. Thank you to all of you for your input though. I will not enter this on the glossary because it is a bit of a moot point (and 9/10 translators would not need to check up anyway!)
Notes to answerer
Asker: Pretty stupid question really - just a bit over-tired and so could not imagine why there would be so few Arbeiter (suitably ashamed of myself now).


Peer comments on this answer (and responses from the answerer)
agree  writeaway: it's the same in Belgium-basically the blue collar/white collar divide. different types of collective labour agreements. it's different categories of employees.
9 mins
disagree  RobinB: See my comments on Lyn's and Tim's answers.//Not really. Millions of "Arbeiter" still here in Germany (mainly in industry and Handwerk), incl. thousands at banks, e.g. at our own banking customers.
1 hr
  -> Hmmm...little strong, don't you think, to disagree? After all, it's really only the difference between "front-" and "back-of house", and in banks, I thinks, they would all be "regular"? Do remeber most "hourly paid" are in 1-euro jobs here...
Login to enter a peer comment (or grade)

9 mins   confidence: Answerer confidence 3/5Answerer confidence 3/5 peer agreement (net): +5
hourly-paid and salaried employees


Explanation:
My first thought

--------------------------------------------------
Note added at 11 mins (2007-03-15 11:23:58 GMT)
--------------------------------------------------

Would possibly also reflect the distinction between clerical/office staff and unskilled/semi-skilled workers such as cleaning staff, etc.

Tim Jenkins
United Kingdom
Local time: 06:16
Works in field
Native speaker of: Native in EnglishEnglish
PRO pts in category: 12

Peer comments on this answer (and responses from the answerer)
agree  RobinB: Often simply "salaried employees" (Angestellte) and "hourly workers" (Arbeiter). At a bank, these are probably messengers, Hausmeister, that sort of thing.
1 hr
agree  gangels (X)
1 hr
agree  Derek Gill Franßen: Taking Robin's comments to my proposal into account, this is probably the best way to go. :)
1 hr
agree  Julia Lipeles
2 hrs
agree  Michael Engley
3 hrs
Login to enter a peer comment (or grade)

11 mins   confidence: Answerer confidence 3/5Answerer confidence 3/5 peer agreement (net): +2
laborer v. (salaried) employee


Explanation:
...is how I might differentiate it. It shouldn't be too much of a problem, as long as you stay consistent. I do not think that it is a euphemism for "Arbeitgeber" - that'd be a bit of a stretch (IMHO).
:)

--------------------------------------------------
Note added at 14 mins (2007-03-15 11:26:05 GMT)
--------------------------------------------------

Obviously, it should probably be in the plural form.

Derek Gill Franßen
Germany
Local time: 07:16
Specializes in field
Native speaker of: English
PRO pts in category: 119
Notes to answerer
Asker: Pretty stupid question really - just a bit over-tired and so could not imagine why there would be so few Arbeiter (suitably ashamed of myself now) - of course if it is a bank dopey. Thanks for the input though.


Peer comments on this answer (and responses from the answerer)
agree  Ulrike Kraemer: Hello, Derek. Long time no see! :-) Laborers could be cleaners, gardeners, etc.
3 mins
  -> Yes, exactly - that is how I see it too. To me "laborer" denotes all those things like "unskilled" or "manual" without actually saying them. ;) Yeah, I have just been incredibly busy with work the last few months (I forgot what sleep was). ;)
agree  writeaway: blue collar /white collar jobs
8 mins
  -> Yes. Thank you, Writeaway. :)
neutral  RobinB: The standard term for Arbeiter is "hourly worker(s)" or "hourly-paid worker(s)", to distinguish them from salarymen.//Hairdressers and canteen assistants are often Arbeiter, not Angestellten. Would you call them "labourers"?
1 hr
  -> I suppose that would work too, whereby laborers are "usually" paid on an hourly basis. // Point taken (though I doubt a bank will have hairdressers, perhaps cantina workers. But, then again, I don't really see why "laborer" wouldn't work there too. :)
Login to enter a peer comment (or grade)

10 mins   confidence: Answerer confidence 3/5Answerer confidence 3/5
Pemanent vs contract


Explanation:
This could be the difference between permanent employees (Angestellte) and contract emloyees (Arbeiter) who do not fall under the company's headcount.

Just a thought.....

--------------------------------------------------
Note added at 2 hrs (2007-03-15 13:50:58 GMT)
--------------------------------------------------

Oops of course I meant permanent vs contract. Slip of the finger!

Lyn Dunk
New Zealand
Local time: 17:16
Specializes in field
Native speaker of: Native in EnglishEnglish
PRO pts in category: 20

Peer comments on this answer (and responses from the answerer)
agree  Francis Lee (X): This is my understanding as well; the Arbeiter would have some kind of Rahmenvertrag but are not actually part of the workforce/ Strange, Robin seems to be agreeing ...
44 mins
disagree  RobinB: No, it really is the difference between employees on a monthly salary and those paid by the hour. Standard Austro-German distinction in these "classless" societies.
1 hr
Login to enter a peer comment (or grade)

1 day 23 hrs   confidence: Answerer confidence 5/5
blue-collar v. white-collar staff


Explanation:
You were right the first time.

Terry Moran
France
Local time: 07:16
Specializes in field
Native speaker of: Native in EnglishEnglish
PRO pts in category: 123
Login to enter a peer comment (or grade)



Login or register (free and only takes a few minutes) to participate in this question.

You will also have access to many other tools and opportunities designed for those who have language-related jobs (or are passionate about them). Participation is free and the site has a strict confidentiality policy.

Return to KudoZ list

KudoZ™ translation help

The KudoZ network provides a framework for translators and others to assist each other with translations or explanations of terms and short phrases.

See also:
ProZ.com term search
Search millions of term translations
Close search
Term search
  • All of ProZ.com
  • Term search
  • Jobs
  • Forums
  • Multiple search