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Deutschen Reich

English translation: German empire

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GLOSSARY ENTRY (DERIVED FROM QUESTION BELOW)
German term or phrase:Deutsches Reich
English translation:German empire
Entered by: John Kinory
Options:
- Contribute to this entry
- Include in personal glossary

13:07 Aug 21, 2002
German to English translations [PRO]
Art/Literary - History / History
German term or phrase: Deutschen Reich
This may appear blindingly obvious at first sight, but I'm not actually looking for the translation, but the usage of this term in English. I am translating a text on the history of Baden-Württemberg and this crops up quite a bit. Readership: educated people, but not necessarily up on German history.

I am never sure with this one. German Empire, German Reich, the Deutsche Reich?? There may even be some sort of a rule. Request some intelligent input. Thank you!
Karin Walker
Germany
Local time: 19:27
German Reich
Explanation:
This is what I would write, simply supported by frequency of use (try Google for "German Reich"). In addition, this corresponds to the term "Third Reich" used for the Nazi dictatorship 1933-45.

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Note added at 2002-08-21 13:15:24 (GMT)
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I must admit that \"German Empire\" is also used in many web sources (among them authoritative educational institutions). Since there is indeed no fixed rule to this, you seem to have the freedom of choice (provided you are consistent throughout your text). I would still go for the first version though.

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Note added at 2002-08-21 13:24:38 (GMT)
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Gezielte Google-Suche nach der Verwendung von \"German Empire\" und \"German Reich\" in .edu-Domains ergab mehr als 2000 bzw. 1000 Treffer, so dass beide wohl \"good English usage\" darstellen, \"Deutsches Reich\" dagegen nicht. Du hast die Wahl zwischen den ersten beiden Begriffen.

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Note added at 2002-08-21 13:44:07 (GMT)
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Zum Nachvollzug meiner Suche:

http://www.google.de/search?as_q=&num=10&hl=de&ie=ISO-8859-1...

http://www.google.de/search?as_q=&num=10&hl=de&ie=ISO-8859-1...



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Note added at 2002-08-21 13:47:33 (GMT)
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Zum Nachvollzug meiner Suche:

http://www.google.de/search?as_q=&num=10&hl=de&ie=ISO-8859-1...

http://www.google.de/search?as_q=&num=10&hl=de&ie=ISO-8859-1...

Selected response from:

Steffen Walter
Germany
Local time: 19:27
Grading comment
Thank you. I chose this because a) I'd have favoured it, and b) it got loads of "agrees". I can see that there are obviously no "rules" on this as it seems a very controversial subject! Thanks to all who participated in the mini-debate.
3 KudoZ points were awarded for this answer

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Summary of answers provided
5 +11German Reich
Steffen Walter
5 +4German empire and German/Third ReichJohn Kinory
5 -1Deutsches Reich
Melanie Sellers
4 -1(the) German Empire
aivars


Discussion entries: 10





  

Answers


4 mins   confidence: Answerer confidence 5/5 peer agreement (net): +11
German Reich


Explanation:
This is what I would write, simply supported by frequency of use (try Google for "German Reich"). In addition, this corresponds to the term "Third Reich" used for the Nazi dictatorship 1933-45.

--------------------------------------------------
Note added at 2002-08-21 13:15:24 (GMT)
--------------------------------------------------

I must admit that \"German Empire\" is also used in many web sources (among them authoritative educational institutions). Since there is indeed no fixed rule to this, you seem to have the freedom of choice (provided you are consistent throughout your text). I would still go for the first version though.

--------------------------------------------------
Note added at 2002-08-21 13:24:38 (GMT)
--------------------------------------------------

Gezielte Google-Suche nach der Verwendung von \"German Empire\" und \"German Reich\" in .edu-Domains ergab mehr als 2000 bzw. 1000 Treffer, so dass beide wohl \"good English usage\" darstellen, \"Deutsches Reich\" dagegen nicht. Du hast die Wahl zwischen den ersten beiden Begriffen.

--------------------------------------------------
Note added at 2002-08-21 13:44:07 (GMT)
--------------------------------------------------

Zum Nachvollzug meiner Suche:

http://www.google.de/search?as_q=&num=10&hl=de&ie=ISO-8859-1...

http://www.google.de/search?as_q=&num=10&hl=de&ie=ISO-8859-1...



--------------------------------------------------
Note added at 2002-08-21 13:47:33 (GMT)
--------------------------------------------------

Zum Nachvollzug meiner Suche:

http://www.google.de/search?as_q=&num=10&hl=de&ie=ISO-8859-1...

http://www.google.de/search?as_q=&num=10&hl=de&ie=ISO-8859-1...




    Reference: http://www.activehistory.co.uk/worksheets/as/mod/collapse_of...
Steffen Walter
Germany
Local time: 19:27
Native speaker of: Native in GermanGerman
PRO pts in category: 50
Grading comment
Thank you. I chose this because a) I'd have favoured it, and b) it got loads of "agrees". I can see that there are obviously no "rules" on this as it seems a very controversial subject! Thanks to all who participated in the mini-debate.

Peer comments on this answer (and responses from the answerer)
agree  Eva Blanar
1 min

agree  Melanie Sellers
2 mins

agree  Piotr Kurek
6 mins

agree  gangels
11 mins

agree  Yuri Dubrov
12 mins
  -> Danke an alle "agrees" :-)

agree  Erika Grzincic-Baumgart M.A.
20 mins
  -> Danke Erika ;-)

neutral  John Kinory: German empire for Bismarck/Kaiser Bill; German Reich for Third Reich
24 mins
  -> Thanks although I won't necessarily use German Reich for Third Reich but only Third Reich itself since German Reich is also used to denote the period from 1871 to 1918, i.e. before the Weimar republic.

agree  Katrin Suchan
24 mins
  -> Danke Katrin :-)

agree  Antonella Andreella
50 mins

agree  EdithK
1 hr

agree  babszika
3 hrs

agree  Nancy Arrowsmith
9 hrs
  -> Thanks again to all of you ;-)
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6 mins   confidence: Answerer confidence 5/5 peer agreement (net): -1
Deutsches Reich


Explanation:
Would probably be fine if the meaning or translation "German Empire" is noted somewhere within.

Melanie Sellers
Local time: 19:27
Native speaker of: Native in GermanGerman

Peer comments on this answer (and responses from the answerer)
disagree  John Kinory: This goes into English. See Steffen above.
19 mins
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11 mins   confidence: Answerer confidence 4/5Answerer confidence 4/5 peer agreement (net): -1
(the) German Empire


Explanation:
If you refer to the Deutsches Reich, Kaiserreich, (1981-1918) this is the most widespread translation in English.

German Reich is not a translation & the Deutsche Reich is German and you are supposed to offer an English rendition.

Das Deutsche Reich
Deutsches Reich

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Note added at 2002-08-21 13:32:42 (GMT)
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Back-up:
Everybody would understand if you say either Deutsches Reich or German Empire. You might have a grammar problem fitting the declination of Deutsches Reich into English.
The word has a clear English translation (even Germans translate it that way) and if translation is available, a translator should do his or her job.
If you don´t translate the term you ´ll have to argue with many German specialists, embassies, etc..
www.briefmarken-hammrich.de/sadrpf.html

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Note added at 2002-08-21 13:37:13 (GMT)
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www.germanembassyottawa.org/gac/ bicultural/milestones.html

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Note added at 2002-08-21 13:38:13 (GMT)
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After its inception in 1871, the German Empire immediately took up diplomatic relations
with the United States, establishing mutual missions, which were given ...
www.germany-info.org/relaunch/ politics/german_us/g_a1.html

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Note added at 2002-08-21 13:38:42 (GMT)
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the Chief Consular Officer of the German Empire appointed to that Protectorate,
or, if there be no such Consular Officer, through the Imperial German Embassy ...
www.austlii.edu.au/au/other/dfat/treaties/1912/8.html

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Note added at 2002-08-21 13:39:36 (GMT)
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The German Embassy immediately made attempts (only partially successful) to identify
the ... to create an alliance between Great Britain and the German Empire. ...
www.ku.edu/~kansite/ww_one/docs/genabc.htm

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Note added at 2002-08-21 13:40:25 (GMT)
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Eastern Europe, including all of the German Empire and the Russian Empire. ... Provided
by the German Embassy in Washington, DC and the German Information Center ...
Description: The language, culture, medieval history, newspapers, maps of Europe
Category: Society > Government > Multilateral > Regional > European Union > Directories
www.usg.edu/galileo/internet/area/europe.html

aivars
Argentina
Local time: 14:27
Native speaker of: Spanish

Peer comments on this answer (and responses from the answerer)
disagree  Steffen Walter: German Empire is one option but search Google for use of "German Reich" @ .edu domains and you might be very surprised about its frequency. Your argument that this is not a translation is not valid (cf. Third Reich).
8 mins
  -> that you are so sure about a conflictive area just scaries me

neutral  John Kinory: German empire for Bismarck/Kaiser Bill; German Reich for Third Reich.
17 mins
  -> There is no request about theThird Reich here
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33 mins   confidence: Answerer confidence 5/5 peer agreement (net): +4
German empire and German/Third Reich


Explanation:
Based on the links above, and my experience in translating historical material into BE, I'd say that Reich is always the Third Reich - that's the reader's (and therefore the intelligent writer's) immediate association. In this context, 'German' simply modifies Reich where clarification is needed; although mostly Reich (with Third on first occurrence) is usually enough.

German empire - the association is with emperor, i.e. Kaiser Bill; to be used only in connection with Bismarck and his mates.

John Kinory
Local time: 18:27

Peer comments on this answer (and responses from the answerer)
agree  Steffen Walter: Frequency of use seems to corroborate your view that Reich is *primarily* used for the Nazi period. But there are other examples as well: cf. http://www.hist.umn.edu/~hist3633/lecture-outline-2.htm (referring to the Bismarck era).
9 mins
  -> Sure: there is conflation and inconsistency. But I think this will be of most help to the reader. Thanks!

agree  Klaus Herrmann: Reich (if left untranslated) is immediately associated with the Third Reich. Historically incorrect? Of course, but I think that's the common perception, at least for an American audience (can't say for a British audience)
29 mins
  -> Thanks. I answered from a British perspective :-)

agree  Cristina Moldovan do Amaral
1 hr
  -> Thanks.

agree  Chinoise
11 hrs
  -> Thanks
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