Deutschen Reich

English translation: German empire

GLOSSARY ENTRY (DERIVED FROM QUESTION BELOW)

German term or phrase:	Deutsches Reich
English translation:	German empire
Entered by:	John Kinory (X)

13:07 Aug 21, 2002

German to English translations [PRO]
Art/Literary - History / History

German term or phrase: Deutschen Reich

This may appear blindingly obvious at first sight, but I'm not actually looking for the translation, but the usage of this term in English. I am translating a text on the history of Baden-Württemberg and this crops up quite a bit. Readership: educated people, but not necessarily up on German history.

I am never sure with this one. German Empire, German Reich, the Deutsche Reich?? There may even be some sort of a rule. Request some intelligent input. Thank you!

Karin Walker (X) KudoZ activity Questions: 165 (none open) (1 without valid answers) (1 closed without grading) Answers: 136 Germany
Local time: 04:14

German Reich

Explanation:
This is what I would write, simply supported by frequency of use (try Google for "German Reich"). In addition, this corresponds to the term "Third Reich" used for the Nazi dictatorship 1933-45.

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Note added at 2002-08-21 13:15:24 (GMT)
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I must admit that \"German Empire\" is also used in many web sources (among them authoritative educational institutions). Since there is indeed no fixed rule to this, you seem to have the freedom of choice (provided you are consistent throughout your text). I would still go for the first version though.

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Note added at 2002-08-21 13:24:38 (GMT)
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Gezielte Google-Suche nach der Verwendung von \"German Empire\" und \"German Reich\" in .edu-Domains ergab mehr als 2000 bzw. 1000 Treffer, so dass beide wohl \"good English usage\" darstellen, \"Deutsches Reich\" dagegen nicht. Du hast die Wahl zwischen den ersten beiden Begriffen.

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Note added at 2002-08-21 13:44:07 (GMT)
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Zum Nachvollzug meiner Suche:

http://www.google.de/search?as_q=&num=10&hl=de&ie=ISO-8859-1...

http://www.google.de/search?as_q=&num=10&hl=de&ie=ISO-8859-1...

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Note added at 2002-08-21 13:47:33 (GMT)
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Zum Nachvollzug meiner Suche:

http://www.google.de/search?as_q=&num=10&hl=de&ie=ISO-8859-1...

http://www.google.de/search?as_q=&num=10&hl=de&ie=ISO-8859-1...

Selected response from:

Steffen Walter
Germany
Local time: 04:14

Grading comment

Thank you. I chose this because a) I'd have favoured it, and b) it got loads of "agrees". I can see that there are obviously no "rules" on this as it seems a very controversial subject! Thanks to all who participated in the mini-debate.
3 KudoZ points were awarded for this answer

Summary of answers provided

5 +11

German Reich

Steffen Walter

5 +4

German empire and German/Third Reich

John Kinory (X)

5 -1

Deutsches Reich

Melanie Sellers

4 -1

(the) German Empire

aivars

Discussion entries: 10

Answers

4 mins confidence:

peer agreement (net): +11

German Reich

Steffen Walter
Germany
Local time: 04:14
Native speaker of:

German
PRO pts in category: 58

Grading comment

Peer comments on this answer (and responses from the answerer)

agree

Eva Blanar

1 min

agree

Melanie Sellers

2 mins

agree

Piotr Kurek

6 mins

agree

gangels (X)

11 mins

agree

Yuri Dubrov

12 mins

-> Danke an alle "agrees" :-)

agree

Erika Grzincic-Baumgart M.A.

20 mins

-> Danke Erika ;-)

neutral

John Kinory (X): German empire for Bismarck/Kaiser Bill; German Reich for Third Reich

24 mins

-> Thanks although I won't necessarily use German Reich for Third Reich but only Third Reich itself since German Reich is also used to denote the period from 1871 to 1918, i.e. before the Weimar republic.

agree

Katrin Suchan

24 mins

-> Danke Katrin :-)

agree

Antonella Andreella (X)

50 mins

agree

Edith Kelly

1 hr

agree

babszika

3 hrs

agree

Nancy Arrowsmith

9 hrs

-> Thanks again to all of you ;-)

6 mins confidence:

peer agreement (net): -1

Deutsches Reich

Explanation:
Would probably be fine if the meaning or translation "German Empire" is noted somewhere within.

Melanie Sellers
Local time: 04:14
Native speaker of:

German

11 mins confidence:

peer agreement (net): -1

(the) German Empire

Explanation:
If you refer to the Deutsches Reich, Kaiserreich, (1981-1918) this is the most widespread translation in English.

German Reich is not a translation & the Deutsche Reich is German and you are supposed to offer an English rendition.

Das Deutsche Reich
Deutsches Reich

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Note added at 2002-08-21 13:32:42 (GMT)
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Back-up:
Everybody would understand if you say either Deutsches Reich or German Empire. You might have a grammar problem fitting the declination of Deutsches Reich into English.
The word has a clear English translation (even Germans translate it that way) and if translation is available, a translator should do his or her job.
If you don´t translate the term you ´ll have to argue with many German specialists, embassies, etc..
www.briefmarken-hammrich.de/sadrpf.html

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Note added at 2002-08-21 13:37:13 (GMT)
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www.germanembassyottawa.org/gac/ bicultural/milestones.html

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Note added at 2002-08-21 13:38:13 (GMT)
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After its inception in 1871, the German Empire immediately took up diplomatic relations
with the United States, establishing mutual missions, which were given ...
www.germany-info.org/relaunch/ politics/german_us/g_a1.html

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Note added at 2002-08-21 13:38:42 (GMT)
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the Chief Consular Officer of the German Empire appointed to that Protectorate,
or, if there be no such Consular Officer, through the Imperial German Embassy ...
www.austlii.edu.au/au/other/dfat/treaties/1912/8.html

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Note added at 2002-08-21 13:39:36 (GMT)
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The German Embassy immediately made attempts (only partially successful) to identify
the ... to create an alliance between Great Britain and the German Empire. ...
www.ku.edu/~kansite/ww_one/docs/genabc.htm

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Note added at 2002-08-21 13:40:25 (GMT)
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Eastern Europe, including all of the German Empire and the Russian Empire. ... Provided
by the German Embassy in Washington, DC and the German Information Center ...
Description: The language, culture, medieval history, newspapers, maps of Europe
Category: Society > Government > Multilateral > Regional > European Union > Directories
www.usg.edu/galileo/internet/area/europe.html

aivars
Argentina
Local time: 23:14
Native speaker of: Spanish

33 mins confidence:

peer agreement (net): +4

German empire and German/Third Reich

Explanation:
Based on the links above, and my experience in translating historical material into BE, I'd say that Reich is always the Third Reich - that's the reader's (and therefore the intelligent writer's) immediate association. In this context, 'German' simply modifies Reich where clarification is needed; although mostly Reich (with Third on first occurrence) is usually enough.

German empire - the association is with emperor, i.e. Kaiser Bill; to be used only in connection with Bismarck and his mates.

John Kinory (X)
Local time: 03:14

Peer comments on this answer (and responses from the answerer)

agree

Steffen Walter: Frequency of use seems to corroborate your view that Reich is *primarily* used for the Nazi period. But there are other examples as well: cf. http://www.hist.umn.edu/~hist3633/lecture-outline-2.htm (referring to the Bismarck era).

9 mins

-> Sure: there is conflation and inconsistency. But I think this will be of most help to the reader. Thanks!

agree

Klaus Herrmann: Reich (if left untranslated) is immediately associated with the Third Reich. Historically incorrect? Of course, but I think that's the common perception, at least for an American audience (can't say for a British audience)

29 mins

-> Thanks. I answered from a British perspective :-)

agree

Cristina Moldovan do Amaral

1 hr

-> Thanks.

agree

Chinoise

11 hrs

-> Thanks

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