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Obersthofmeister

English translation: Chief Chamberlain

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13:27 Jan 31, 2009
German to English translations [PRO]
History / Court positions at the imperial court in Vienna
German term or phrase: Obersthofmeister
I'm looking for terms of the various employees of the Viennese court at the Hofburg. An excerpt from a book:

Der Hofstaat des Kaisers
Der Hofstaat Kaiser Franz Josephs umfasste über 1000 Personen, die in der Hofburg arbeiteten und zum Teil auch hier lebten. Die obersten Hofämter waren der Obersthofmeister, der Oberstkämmerer, der Obersthofmarschall und der Obertstallmeister.

Any references, preferrably online, would be appreciated.

Thanks.
My Hue McGowran
Austria
Local time: 09:16
English translation:Chief Chamberlain
Explanation:
Translation of a letter from Court Tranthmaunsdorf, Chief Chamberlain to H.I.& R. Highness the Emperor of Austria, Hungary, dated Vienna, 30th April 1893, ...
www.deendayal.com/appointment.htm - 22k - Im Cache - Ähnliche Seiten

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Note added at 11 Min. (2009-01-31 13:39:00 GMT)
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(the Brit. term being Lord High Chamberlain or Lord Chamberlain)

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Note added at 27 Min. (2009-01-31 13:54:50 GMT)
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Was die Leibgarde am österr. Kaiserhof betrifft, so ist der Terminus dafür Royal Horse Guards (Österreich-Ungarn bis 1918). Irgendjemand hat body guard vorgeschlagen. du hast diese Frage offensichtlich zurückgezogen, da ich sie nicht mehr finden kann, und daher dieses Feld für meine Antwort benütze.
Selected response from:

Ellen Kraus
Austria
Local time: 09:16
Grading comment
4 KudoZ points were awarded for this answer

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Summary of answers provided
4 +1Chief ChamberlainEllen Kraus
4Lord Steward
Charles Rothwell
4Lord High Steward
Kim Metzger
Summary of reference entries provided
Historical background info
Kim Metzger

  

Answers


9 mins   confidence: Answerer confidence 4/5Answerer confidence 4/5 peer agreement (net): +1
Chief Chamberlain


Explanation:
Translation of a letter from Court Tranthmaunsdorf, Chief Chamberlain to H.I.& R. Highness the Emperor of Austria, Hungary, dated Vienna, 30th April 1893, ...
www.deendayal.com/appointment.htm - 22k - Im Cache - Ähnliche Seiten

--------------------------------------------------
Note added at 11 Min. (2009-01-31 13:39:00 GMT)
--------------------------------------------------

(the Brit. term being Lord High Chamberlain or Lord Chamberlain)

--------------------------------------------------
Note added at 27 Min. (2009-01-31 13:54:50 GMT)
--------------------------------------------------

Was die Leibgarde am österr. Kaiserhof betrifft, so ist der Terminus dafür Royal Horse Guards (Österreich-Ungarn bis 1918). Irgendjemand hat body guard vorgeschlagen. du hast diese Frage offensichtlich zurückgezogen, da ich sie nicht mehr finden kann, und daher dieses Feld für meine Antwort benütze.

Ellen Kraus
Austria
Local time: 09:16
Native speaker of: Native in GermanGerman
PRO pts in category: 8

Peer comments on this answer (and responses from the answerer)
agree  Mustafa Er (BSc MA): -
1 min
  -> thank you !

neutral  Kim Metzger: And the Oberstkämmerer? Any references for your translations?
8 mins
  -> Danke! die sind doch hier nicht gefragt. Aber ich verrate es dir trotzdem: the Keepers of the Privy Purse " (engl. equivalent: royal household officer)

neutral  BrigitteHilgner: I guess you mean "Count Trarutmannsdorf"?
29 mins
  -> Graf Ferdinand von Trauttmannsdorf war einer von vielen.

neutral  Charles Rothwell: The Lord Chamberlain is concerend with arranging state visits etc., whilst the Lord Great Chamberlain has charge over the Palace of Westminster (and carries the Sword of State at the State Opening of Parliament. They are thus two distinct posts.
3 hrs
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1 hr   confidence: Answerer confidence 4/5Answerer confidence 4/5
Lord High Steward


Explanation:
Based on my research, I'd have to say it's Lord High Steward.

The Lord High Steward, Prince Montenuovo, prescribed a not-
ably simplified ceremonial for the solemn obsequies of
Franz Ferdinand and his wife, because, by the Emperor's
command, the murdered pair were to be laid out and in-
terred together. Therefore the dead heir might not have
the full military and court honors otherwise due to him.
So much resentment and open criticism of the Lord High
Steward was caused by what the nobles and many officers
regarded as a slight on the dead, that the Emperor was
moved to write a holograph letter to Prince Montenuovo,
expressing his special confidence in him!
http://www.archive.org/stream/emperorfrancisjo002603mbp/empe...

Alfred von Montenuovo nahm als junger Mann an der Besetzung Bosniens durch Österreich teil. 1896/97 wurde er Obersthofmeister des Erzherzogs Otto Franz Joseph von Österreich, des jüngeren Bruders des Erzherzogs Franz Ferdinand. In dieser Funktion versuchte er die Erbansprüche Franz Ferdinands zugunsten von Otto zu hintertreiben. 1898 wurde er im Dienst des Kaiserhofes 2. Obersthofmeister neben Liechtenstein. Aufgrund der krankheitsbedingten Ausfälle Liechtensteins übernahm Montenuovo zumeist dessen Aufgaben und war so de facto bereits damals erster Obersthofmeister. Nach Liechtensteins Tod wurde er 1909 erster Obersthofmeister

http://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alfred_von_Montenuovo


Kim Metzger
Mexico
Local time: 02:16
Works in field
Native speaker of: Native in EnglishEnglish
PRO pts in category: 200
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3 hrs   confidence: Answerer confidence 4/5Answerer confidence 4/5
Lord Steward


Explanation:
In terms of the ENGLISH courrt, the 'Lord Steward' was/is 'the first dignitary of the court'. In terms of RANK, ("Die obersten Hofämter..."), this would thus correspond to Obersthofmesiter. (The Lord High Steward was a distinct post as one of the Great Offices of STATE (as opposed to the Court). The post has also remained vacant since 1421 and is only revived at coronations (and, unitl this was abolished in 1948, at the trial of peers before the House of Lords)).


    Reference: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lord_Steward
    Reference: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lord_High_Steward
Charles Rothwell
United Kingdom
Local time: 08:16
Specializes in field
Native speaker of: Native in EnglishEnglish
PRO pts in category: 4
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Reference comments


1 hr
Reference: Historical background info

Reference information:
At both courts the staff consolidating in the sixteenth century clearly reflect the routines of table, chamber, stable, hunt and chapel ...

A high steward or majordomo (....Obersthofmeister) catering for the ruler's table, held responsibility for the ruler's kitchen, the cellar, provisioning and the stock of costly tableware. The steward combined the senior position in the household with a voice in the council, and he commanded a vast range of subordinates.

http://tinyurl.com/ae8bk5

http://books.google.com/books?id=LORFDFxqCI8C&pg=PA106&lpg=P
A106&dq=Imperial+household+Austria+chamberlain&source=bl&ots
=jK2J-aqWEn&sig=Xutt-ALt8Dg7r6wGaSm0n5aYe1k&hl=en&sa=X&oi=bo
ok_result&resnum=7&ct=result#PPA39,M1


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Note added at 1 hr (2009-01-31 14:50:32 GMT)
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According to Muret-Sanders, a Kammerherr is a chamberlain. A königlicher Kammerherr is lord of the bedchamber, Würde eines Kammerherren - chamberlainship. A Hofmeister is a steward or Comptroller of the Royal Household.

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Note added at 1 hr (2009-01-31 15:05:03 GMT)
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chief Lord High Steward?

In March 1876, Her Imperial Majesty, the Empress of Austria, paid a visit to England and rented Easton Neston House near Towcester, with its fine stabling for her horses. The following account was reported in the Northampton Herald on 6.3.1876:
The Empress used the pseudonym Countess Hohenembs to avoid publicity but probably to no avail. Her immediate personal staff included Baron Nopcsa who was Master of the Household; Countess Festetics, a lady in waiting; Dr Langyi; a hairdresser; Bayzand, stud groom; Mr Allen, an English man who was her groom in Vienna who had been sent out to Vienna by the ex-Queen to replace Holmes who was getting old; Rudi Lichtenstein, chief Lord High Steward [a very influential man with estates in Moravia]; Counts Hans and Heinrich Larisch, Marshalls of the Court; and Prince Ferdinand Kinsky. Noticeably more Hungarians than Austrians, as was her preference.
Two days later she had left for Vienna; Franz Joseph was pleased to have her home again and he paid the cost of her trip of £120,000.

http://www.mkheritage.co.uk/EoA/docs/Eastonneston.html

Kim Metzger
Mexico
Works in field
Native speaker of: Native in EnglishEnglish
PRO pts in category: 200
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