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seitdem handschriftlich belegt

English translation: since/subsequently documented in (a) manuscript/s (form)

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GLOSSARY ENTRY (DERIVED FROM QUESTION BELOW)

German term or phrase:	seitdem handschriftlich belegt
English translation:	since/subsequently documented in (a) manuscript/s (form)
Entered by:	mill

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17:01 May 22, 2011

German to English translations [PRO]
Social Sciences - History

German term or phrase: seitdem handschriftlich belegt

From a scholarly book on Christian Kabbalah.

The phrase appears in a footnote on a medieval text:

XXX [title of the text], fertiggestellt 1292 in der Nähe von Montpellier, *seitdem handschriftlich belegt*.

I have an inkling as to what this means - there are handwritten copies of this text dating from that time, or something along those lines (?). What would the English phrase be?

mill KudoZ activity Questions: 116 (none open) (5 closed without grading) Answers: 124
Local time: 03:09

since/subsequently documented in (a) manuscript/s (form)

Explanation:
The phrase means that the existence of this thing has been confirmed in a manuscript or manuscripts since that date. It has nothing to do with the continued existence of anything. It is standard practice in history of any kind to seek verification of an event or a person or a thing in documentary evidence rather than relying on one, perhaps shaky source alone.

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Note added at 5 hrs (2011-05-22 22:50:52 GMT)
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See my earlier discussion post.

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Note added at 4 days (2011-05-27 11:16:26 GMT) Post-grading
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Thanks, mill

Selected response from:

Helen Shiner
United Kingdom
Local time: 02:09

Grading comment

Thank you, Helen!
4 KudoZ points were awarded for this answer

Summary of answers provided

4 +3

since/subsequently documented in (a) manuscript/s (form)

Helen Shiner

extant in manuscript form since that date

Rebecca Garber

3 +1

forthwith documented

Ramey Rieger

documented in manuscript form since then

Horst Huber

Summary of reference entries provided

manuscript

wilp

Discussion entries: 1

Answers

2 hrs confidence:

documented in manuscript form since then

Explanation:
The context would clarify, if the idea is that the document was created then and has existed as manuscript ever since, or that it was codified some time later and has existed from then on.

Horst Huber
Local time: 21:09
Specializes in field
Native speaker of:

German
PRO pts in category: 4

5 hrs confidence:

extant in manuscript form since that date

Explanation:
It means that the manuscript transmission is not only extant (we have them currently) but that their transmission in this format is not interrupted, either.

Medieval manuscripts and their descriptions formed the basis for my doctoral thesis.

Rebecca Garber
Local time: 21:09
Specializes in field
Native speaker of:

English
PRO pts in category: 16

56 mins confidence:

peer agreement (net): +1

forthwith documented

Explanation:
yes, you're right in your assumption

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Note added at 12 hrs (2011-05-23 05:58:18 GMT)
--------------------------------------------------

My mistake: henceforth documented is what I wanted.

Ramey Rieger
Local time: 03:09
Native speaker of:

English
PRO pts in category: 12

Peer comments on this answer (and responses from the answerer)

agree

rikka: documented in manuscripts // i've heard about it, but must admit i've been reading little fiction lately, i'll put it on my list though!

46 mins

-> Thank-you, Rikka - Have you read "Stein und Flöte"?

neutral

Jim Tucker: can't be "forthwith" / or "henceforth" either -- or "from that moment on", which implies continuity. "Since" or a synonym is what you want. ("Henceforth" is incorrect in any context.)

2 hrs

-> True, henceforth, would be correct. Thank-you!/ Henceforth IS a synonym for since, intended for "footnote speak".

neutral

writeaway: henceforth isn't the right En word either. /Since. Henceforth means from now on. don't see how that could work in the context, ie describe an action that happened in the past

12 hrs

-> from that moment on.......I do believe?/I beg to differ, the verb indicates the past.

5 hrs confidence:

peer agreement (net): +3

since/subsequently documented in (a) manuscript/s (form)

Helen Shiner
United Kingdom
Local time: 02:09
Specializes in field
Native speaker of:

English
PRO pts in category: 65

Grading comment

Thank you, Helen!

Reference comments

8 mins peer agreement (net): +1

Reference: manuscript

Reference information:
An old handwritten document would be a manuscript.

Reference: http://www.bl.uk/catalogues/manuscripts/INDEX.asp

wilp
United Kingdom
Works in field
Native speaker of:

German

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seitdem handschriftlich belegt

English translation: since/subsequently documented in (a) manuscript/s (form)

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seitdem handschriftlich belegt

English translation: since/subsequently documented in (a) manuscript/s (form)

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KudoZ™ translation helpThe KudoZ network provides a framework for translators and others to assist each other with translations or explanations of terms and short phrases.

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