KudoZ home » German to English » History

Dinghorst

English translation: copse

Advertisement

Login or register (free and only takes a few minutes) to participate in this question.

You will also have access to many other tools and opportunities designed for those who have language-related jobs
(or are passionate about them). Participation is free and the site has a strict confidentiality policy.
GLOSSARY ENTRY (DERIVED FROM QUESTION BELOW)
German term or phrase:Dinghorst
English translation:copse
Entered by: Kim Metzger
Options:
- Contribute to this entry
- Include in personal glossary

22:12 Mar 3, 2004
German to English translations [PRO]
History
German term or phrase: Dinghorst
Is Dinghorst simply a not-to-be-translated proper name?
I've also assumed that Schwegfeld is a proper name, but am happy to be corrected if appropriate.

The context is the summary of a court decision of 1560:-

XXX behält alle Rechte, die dem Stift bzw. dem Bischof zustanden,die Mühle und den Teich an der Ösper, 6 Kämpe auf dem Holzhauser Felde und in Stemmer, die Wiesen im Wischbruch und im Pflugbruch, das Schwegfeld,
die Nutzung der Dinghorst, das Huderecht im Mindenerwald und im Nordholz
Armorel Young
Local time: 04:07
ideas
Explanation:
Here's some speculation based on my Duden Herkunftswörterbuch. Neither term is in the current Duden Universalwoerterbuch or Wahrig. Dinghorst sure doesn't look like the name of a town in 15th century Germany. My guess is that Dinghorst is a copse.
The best place of 15th century German is the mailing list described below. Members have very old dictionaries,etc.

The mill and the pond, 6 fields (Kämpe), the meadows, the Schwegfeld, use of the copse? (Dinghorst), the right to keep livestock? - Huderecht) - hüten.

Duden Herkunftswörterbuch - Horst: Gesträuch, Hecke, Dickicht, niedriges Gestrüpp, Wäldchen, Gehölz, Flechtwerk, engl. hurst.
Ding: Gericht, Flechtwerk
OED - hurst: a wooded hillock, copse, knoll, sandbank.
Flechtwerk - civil engineering: wattlework

Non-current German - Yahoo
This is a group for specialists -- translators; scholars, academics, and graduate students in various fields; and professional genealogists, among others -- who translate or work with non-current (18th- to 20th-century) German, including old handwritten or typed letters and diaries, printed documents, and historical or literary material of all sorts. Its purpose is to pool members' expertise and resources in terminology, regional terms and variants, non-standard grammar, official jargon, social and cultural conventions, and other elements that make a given text difficult to convey in English.

http://groups.yahoo.com/group/non_current_German/


--------------------------------------------------
Note added at 2 hrs 32 mins (2004-03-04 00:45:49 GMT)
--------------------------------------------------

Possibilities: die Wiesen im Wischbruch und im Pflugbruch – the meadows/pastures in the willow moor and in the ploughed moorland.

Bruch – Sumpfland, Moor, nasses Uferland. Dunkler Ursprung: Englisch – brook. Bruchig – sumpfig.

Wisch – (vgl. Weide) es bedeutete ursprünglich zusammengedrehtes Bündel, Strohbüschel.

Weide – die Weide ist also nach ihren biegsamen, zum Flechten dienenden Zweigen benannt. Weide - the tree – willow.

Wisch = bundle, meadow, willow
Bruch = Sumpfland, moor, brook, place where something is broken
Pflug = plough

im Wischbruch = the willow moor?

These include most of the Palaeolithic, Mesolithic and Neolithic stone tools and weapons and the Bronze Age finds which include individual bronze tools and weapons but also several hoards including the Guilsfield, Ebnall and Willow Moor hoards.
http://www.darwincountry.org/explore/000558.html

Im Pflugbruch = the ploughed moorland?

Over the years there have been lots of changes on Exmoor:
• farmers have ploughed the moorland


--------------------------------------------------
Note added at 3 hrs 10 mins (2004-03-04 01:23:33 GMT)
--------------------------------------------------

Speculation on Schwegfeld. The closest word I can find for Schweg is Schwaige.
Wahrig: Schwaige = Senn – Alm – Weideland. Senne – Heideland. Heath field?
Duden Universalwörterbuch: Schwaige [mittelhochdeutsch, sweige, sweiga.
Selected response from:

Kim Metzger
Mexico
Local time: 22:07
Grading comment
Thank you Kim - and Robert too - for such an informative and well-researched answer.
4 KudoZ points were awarded for this answer

Advertisement


Summary of answers provided
4 +1a proper name, not to be translated
swisstell
4s below
Robert Schlarb
3ideas
Kim Metzger
2placename
Jonathan MacKerron


  

Answers


3 mins   confidence: Answerer confidence 4/5Answerer confidence 4/5 peer agreement (net): +1
a proper name, not to be translated


Explanation:
as you surmised. Put the name into Google and it will convince you that this is indeed a proper name.

swisstell
Italy
Local time: 05:07
Native speaker of: German
PRO pts in category: 12

Peer comments on this answer (and responses from the answerer)
agree  Robert M Maier
53 mins
Login to enter a peer comment (or grade)

7 mins   confidence: Answerer confidence 2/5Answerer confidence 2/5
placename


Explanation:
a part of Kiel

--------------------------------------------------
Note added at 27 mins (2004-03-03 22:40:34 GMT)
--------------------------------------------------

they all seem to be names of places in N. Germany (some only historical that no longer exist as such)

Jonathan MacKerron
Native speaker of: Native in EnglishEnglish
PRO pts in category: 47
Login to enter a peer comment (or grade)

55 mins   confidence: Answerer confidence 3/5Answerer confidence 3/5
ideas


Explanation:
Here's some speculation based on my Duden Herkunftswörterbuch. Neither term is in the current Duden Universalwoerterbuch or Wahrig. Dinghorst sure doesn't look like the name of a town in 15th century Germany. My guess is that Dinghorst is a copse.
The best place of 15th century German is the mailing list described below. Members have very old dictionaries,etc.

The mill and the pond, 6 fields (Kämpe), the meadows, the Schwegfeld, use of the copse? (Dinghorst), the right to keep livestock? - Huderecht) - hüten.

Duden Herkunftswörterbuch - Horst: Gesträuch, Hecke, Dickicht, niedriges Gestrüpp, Wäldchen, Gehölz, Flechtwerk, engl. hurst.
Ding: Gericht, Flechtwerk
OED - hurst: a wooded hillock, copse, knoll, sandbank.
Flechtwerk - civil engineering: wattlework

Non-current German - Yahoo
This is a group for specialists -- translators; scholars, academics, and graduate students in various fields; and professional genealogists, among others -- who translate or work with non-current (18th- to 20th-century) German, including old handwritten or typed letters and diaries, printed documents, and historical or literary material of all sorts. Its purpose is to pool members' expertise and resources in terminology, regional terms and variants, non-standard grammar, official jargon, social and cultural conventions, and other elements that make a given text difficult to convey in English.

http://groups.yahoo.com/group/non_current_German/


--------------------------------------------------
Note added at 2 hrs 32 mins (2004-03-04 00:45:49 GMT)
--------------------------------------------------

Possibilities: die Wiesen im Wischbruch und im Pflugbruch – the meadows/pastures in the willow moor and in the ploughed moorland.

Bruch – Sumpfland, Moor, nasses Uferland. Dunkler Ursprung: Englisch – brook. Bruchig – sumpfig.

Wisch – (vgl. Weide) es bedeutete ursprünglich zusammengedrehtes Bündel, Strohbüschel.

Weide – die Weide ist also nach ihren biegsamen, zum Flechten dienenden Zweigen benannt. Weide - the tree – willow.

Wisch = bundle, meadow, willow
Bruch = Sumpfland, moor, brook, place where something is broken
Pflug = plough

im Wischbruch = the willow moor?

These include most of the Palaeolithic, Mesolithic and Neolithic stone tools and weapons and the Bronze Age finds which include individual bronze tools and weapons but also several hoards including the Guilsfield, Ebnall and Willow Moor hoards.
http://www.darwincountry.org/explore/000558.html

Im Pflugbruch = the ploughed moorland?

Over the years there have been lots of changes on Exmoor:
• farmers have ploughed the moorland


--------------------------------------------------
Note added at 3 hrs 10 mins (2004-03-04 01:23:33 GMT)
--------------------------------------------------

Speculation on Schwegfeld. The closest word I can find for Schweg is Schwaige.
Wahrig: Schwaige = Senn – Alm – Weideland. Senne – Heideland. Heath field?
Duden Universalwörterbuch: Schwaige [mittelhochdeutsch, sweige, sweiga.


Kim Metzger
Mexico
Local time: 22:07
Works in field
Native speaker of: Native in EnglishEnglish
PRO pts in category: 200
Grading comment
Thank you Kim - and Robert too - for such an informative and well-researched answer.
Login to enter a peer comment (or grade)

9 hrs   confidence: Answerer confidence 4/5Answerer confidence 4/5
s below


Explanation:
Kim's explanation is rather exhaustive and I would be inclined to agree, except that perhaps the impression is conveyed that these names are essentially descriptive.
There was a tendency in the latter middle ages (i.e. 14th-16th centuries) for descriptive names to be used as proper names. The etymology of the term "Dinghorst" may indeed be found in a designation of the hill or knoll where the local council of judgment (Ding) met in order to right injustices, by the time in question (1560), however, as the document itself presupposes, courts of this kind were no longer in existence, in fact they had ceased to exist with the Christianization of northern Germany in the 8th to 10th centuries and the passage of judicial powers to the representatives of the king or emperor (in these parts usually a bishop or archbishop).
By way of analogy (and as an interesting anecdote), I once received an email inquiry from a gentleman in the United States name "Ungerfeld" wishing to know the origin of the name "Ungerfeldgasse" in our town of Bad Fischau, Austria. I asked the deputy mayor, an elderly person who had been involved in practically every land transaction during the past 30 years. He said, rather matter-of-factly, that the street name went back to the piece of farmland upon which it was built (Flurname). At one time every plot of "acreage" (Flur) had its own distinctive name -- rarely related to the name of the owner. Thus, the Ungerfeld had probably belonged to -- or simply been worked -- by a farmer of Hungarian origin at some point in time during the middle ages, yet in the 21st century the name has only the function of proper name designating a particular quarter in town.
Summary: by 1560 Dinghorst had been a proper name for centuries.
--
Als Flur bezeichnet der Geowissenschaftler die "parzellierte landwirtschaftliche Nutzfläche eines Siedlungs- oder Wirtschaftsverbandes." (Diercke, S. 217). Die Unterteilung der Natur in Flächen, für die eine bestimmte Nutzung vorgesehen ist, macht sie zu etwas, das genauer und kleinräumiger bezeichnet werden muss. Die Flur selbst ist unterteilt in Parzellen und Parzellenkomplexe, die i.d.R. an Besitzer gebunden sind, wenn sie nicht gemeinschaftlicher Besitz (sog. Allmende) des Siedlungsverbandes sind. Fluren gibt es in vielen unterschiedlichen Ausprägungen, wobei diese Flur(formen)typen anhand ihrer Form und den Verlauf der (Besitz)Parzellengrenzen unterschieden und klassifiziert werden. (vgl. Diercke, S. 217f.)


    Reference: http://www.linguist.de/Deutsch/fln.htm
Robert Schlarb
Local time: 05:07
Works in field
Native speaker of: Native in EnglishEnglish, Native in GermanGerman
PRO pts in category: 16
Login to enter a peer comment (or grade)




Return to KudoZ list


KudoZ™ translation help
The KudoZ network provides a framework for translators and others to assist each other with translations or explanations of terms and short phrases.



See also:



Term search
  • All of ProZ.com
  • Term search
  • Jobs
  • Forums
  • Multiple search