13:33 May 5, 2011 

I guess you are right. It's definitely preferable to some other alternatives, stealing included. In any case, there are many contributions to society that go unappreciated, and so many people that have to do unpleasant things, that it makes me realise how lucky I am, and saddens me to think of the awful hardships some people have to endure.

13:29 May 5, 2011 

Believe me, you would if you had to - unless you steal

13:27 May 5, 2011 

I agree wholeheartedly. I admire the people who do it day in, day out, because I couldn't. By the end of a day of sorting through boxes of oranges to throw out any that had gone mouldy or trying to put apples in the right spaces in trays that went whizzing past I felt like I never wanted to see fruit again. I worked with some lovely people, and I take my hat off to them.

13:22 May 5, 2011 

some people need the money. They are prepared to work and don't steal. And they do jobs most others wouldn't do. I thank them for their contribution.

13:14 May 5, 2011 

Unlike the agency work. I don't know how some people can spend their lives wroking in a factory packing fruit. It drove me insane!

12:51 May 5, 2011 

for your help & insider information!

12:15 May 5, 2011 

is that transport is not provided and the workers are expected to make thier own travel arrangements, so it has to be treated differently.

12:10 May 5, 2011 

it was possible for someone to be picked up in the morning, and wait around for half an hour or more, only to be sent home because there was no work for them on that day, in which case they got nothing and were not deemed to be at work at all. The actual hours were pretty much the same, no matter whcih job you got assigned, but the travelling time was different, so the fruit pickers left first, then hospital laundry and last of all fruit packers and they logged it from the time of leaving the office. In this case, you see, I think Paul's suggestion about whether or not it is treated as working time makes absolute sense.

10:14 May 5, 2011 

Although strictly speaking I expect you were considered "at work" from when you got to the agency office, at latest, so only the time spent getting there would be commuting time, whereas the time getting from there to where you then actually worked was work time?

10:00 May 5, 2011 

I think that is correct. When I worked for an agency one summer there were various pick up points where they would collect the workers in the morning, but we were then all taken to the agency office to find out what work we had for the day, then bussed to work. They never took account of the time before we arrived at their offices, even though this was considerably longer and meant a much earlier start for some than others. The same applied at the end of the day when some people had a much longer journey home. Our working time was counted from teh time of leaving the office in the morning to the time we returned in the evening with no additional travel allowance.

09:18 May 5, 2011 

if I have understood you correctly, you're suggesting "if the journey time is not counted as working time" rather than "outside working hours"?

i.e.

"If the journey time from the ADS offices to the customer’s plant, assuming the journey time is not counted as working time, takes more than 1.5 hours using the fastest means of public transport, any time in excess of the anticipated 1.5 hours for each journey shall be paid as working time, provided the time was genuinely spent travelling."

It seems very odd to me that it specifies the agency's offices, as opposed to the journey to and from home and the place where work is performed. Could this really be the case, or might I have misinterpreted it? It seems rather pointless and potentially unfair, as it would then apply equally to all employees, regardless of where they live.

08:40 May 5, 2011 

WEGEZEIT
TRAVEL-TO-WORK TIME
The time it takes the employee to journey to and from home and the place where work is performed. It differs from business travel (for which certain conditions are specified) in that it does not count as part of working time.
http://www.eurofound.europa.eu/emire/GERMANY/TRAVELTOWORKTIM...

08:33 May 5, 2011 

@ David: in your proposed translation I think you slightly misinterpret "ausserhalb der Arbeitszeit". It is not really a question whether outside working hours the journey takes more than 1.5 hours. Basically it is more the question of where the journey time does not count as or is not treated as working time. In those circumstances, where it exceeds 1.5 hours in each direction the time in excess of 1.5 hours each way will be paid as working time.

However, if the journey time is already treated as working time then this clause (obviously) will not apply.

08:15 May 5, 2011 

I understand it to meant that for any time in excess of the anticipated maximum 1.5 hours (each way) spent travelling will be paid as working time, provided the time was genuinely spent travelling/ journey actually took this long