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Eigentum Dritter

English translation: Thid party ownership

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17:25 Feb 11, 2009
German to English translations [Non-PRO]
Law/Patents - Law (general) / Property Law
German term or phrase: Eigentum Dritter
The sentence in the contract reads: "Das Eigentum Dritter ist vom Verkauf ausgeschlossen. Der Kaeufer verpflichtet sich, das Grundstueck abzunehmen".

This is an editing job and the file has been split between two translators with two differing readings:
'Ownership by third parties is excluded from the sale.'
'Property of third parties is excluded from the sale'.

I would read it as the latter but would just like to double check - or maybe you have a better alternative.

Thanks

Simon
xxxPoveyTrans
Local time: 12:48
English translation:Thid party ownership
Explanation:
is a viable translation if the contract seeks to make sure that there will be no layering, securitization, or other priority interests in the property being acquired.

--------------------------------------------------
Note added at 41 mins (2009-02-11 18:07:18 GMT)
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but since this is a real estate transaction, it seems unlikely.

--------------------------------------------------
Note added at 42 mins (2009-02-11 18:08:30 GMT)
--------------------------------------------------

unless a mortgage or other pledge is involved; or a typical priority interest scheme typical in the predatory lending environment - you would have to choose this interpretation carefully from the entire context of the contract you are translating.

--------------------------------------------------
Note added at 1 hr (2009-02-11 18:52:43 GMT)
--------------------------------------------------

To asker: I understand better now: My sense is that if "third party ownership" were meant, the drafter would have probably used "Eigentumsrechte Dritter" rather than just "Eigentum Dritter". You can make the final decision toward "property held by third parties/persons" by checking the context in the paragraph preceding and succeeding the language. If the notion of the contractual context is to emphasize that there should be no other, third party stakeholders or interests in the property, then going with "ownership" is the more prudent choice. good luck!

--------------------------------------------------
Note added at 2 hrs (2009-02-11 19:51:25 GMT)
--------------------------------------------------

as andrew correctly observes:
third party ownership (US)
third-party ownership (UK)
Selected response from:

xxxPeter Manda
Local time: 07:48
Grading comment
Thanks Peter. Points award for careful consideration and attempt to explain why the translator may have proposed this option. Perhaps not so off-the-wall as it may have seemed, however I think Mary's answer is right.
4 KudoZ points were awarded for this answer

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Summary of answers provided
5 +12Third party property
Mary Watson
3 +1Thid party ownershipxxxPeter Manda
4 -1third persons´ (or person´s) propertyEllen Kraus


  

Answers


1 min   confidence: Answerer confidence 5/5 peer agreement (net): +12
Third party property


Explanation:
Yes, I would go with the latter and modify it to third party property.

Mary Watson
Local time: 07:48
Works in field
Native speaker of: English
PRO pts in category: 4

Peer comments on this answer (and responses from the answerer)
agree  andres-larsen
3 mins

agree  Penny Hewson
6 mins

agree  Armorel Young: Has to be third-party property; what worries me is that anyone even proposed "ownership by third parties" - what on earth did they think it meant?
8 mins

agree  Kent Hyde
18 mins

agree  ventnai
1 hr

agree  Inge Meinzer
1 hr

agree  David Moore
1 hr

agree  Alexander Schleber: or "property of third parties" depending on syntax.
2 hrs

agree  Julia Lipeles
2 hrs

agree  Sabine Akabayov, PhD
8 hrs

agree  Goldenbead
14 hrs

agree  Bettina Rittsteuer
15 hrs
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1 hr   confidence: Answerer confidence 4/5Answerer confidence 4/5 peer agreement (net): -1
third persons´ (or person´s) property


Explanation:
B) he has a legal duty to protect the third person's land or property; or. (C) the third person whose land or property he uses force or deadly force to ...
www.bakers-legal-pages.com/fastlaws/pc2004/00000050.htm - 7k - Im Cache - Ähnliche Seiten

Ellen Kraus
Austria
Local time: 13:48
Specializes in field
Native speaker of: Native in GermanGerman
PRO pts in category: 312

Peer comments on this answer (and responses from the answerer)
disagree  Lancashireman: 'Third person' not appropriate here. OK in a grammatical context (he/she/it/they)
1 hr
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40 mins   confidence: Answerer confidence 3/5Answerer confidence 3/5 peer agreement (net): +1
Thid party ownership


Explanation:
is a viable translation if the contract seeks to make sure that there will be no layering, securitization, or other priority interests in the property being acquired.

--------------------------------------------------
Note added at 41 mins (2009-02-11 18:07:18 GMT)
--------------------------------------------------

but since this is a real estate transaction, it seems unlikely.

--------------------------------------------------
Note added at 42 mins (2009-02-11 18:08:30 GMT)
--------------------------------------------------

unless a mortgage or other pledge is involved; or a typical priority interest scheme typical in the predatory lending environment - you would have to choose this interpretation carefully from the entire context of the contract you are translating.

--------------------------------------------------
Note added at 1 hr (2009-02-11 18:52:43 GMT)
--------------------------------------------------

To asker: I understand better now: My sense is that if "third party ownership" were meant, the drafter would have probably used "Eigentumsrechte Dritter" rather than just "Eigentum Dritter". You can make the final decision toward "property held by third parties/persons" by checking the context in the paragraph preceding and succeeding the language. If the notion of the contractual context is to emphasize that there should be no other, third party stakeholders or interests in the property, then going with "ownership" is the more prudent choice. good luck!

--------------------------------------------------
Note added at 2 hrs (2009-02-11 19:51:25 GMT)
--------------------------------------------------

as andrew correctly observes:
third party ownership (US)
third-party ownership (UK)

xxxPeter Manda
Local time: 07:48
Specializes in field
Native speaker of: Native in EnglishEnglish, Native in GermanGerman
PRO pts in category: 20
Grading comment
Thanks Peter. Points award for careful consideration and attempt to explain why the translator may have proposed this option. Perhaps not so off-the-wall as it may have seemed, however I think Mary's answer is right.
Notes to answerer
Asker: Thanks. It's in fact quite a complex transaction and part of a huge case looking into a series of transactions on a 'plot of land' in Berlin which has various pre-WW2 mortgages registered against it, parts were also divided off and sold to neighbouring properties etc. This contract is from 1993.

Asker: Peter, also the contract refers to a 'Grundstück' as opposed to a specific property, though there may be a single property on this site now.


Peer comments on this answer (and responses from the answerer)
agree  Lancashireman: Qualifies under ‘Most helpful answer’ criterion (At least this answerer put some thought into the question) Peter, I get the impression that you aren't too bothered in the USA about hyphenating compound adjectives? // Quite often 'thrid'.
1 hr
  -> :-) I wouldn't say that. ... I would say that haste does make waste; and that I proofread translations 3x; for example, how do you spell "third"? ...
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Voters for reclassification
as
PRO / non-PRO
Non-PRO (3): Helen Shiner, Lancashireman, Sabine Akabayov, PhD


Return to KudoZ list


Changes made by editors
Feb 12, 2009 - Changes made by Sabine Akabayov, PhD:
LevelPRO » Non-PRO


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