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seitens des erkennenden Gerichts

English translation: venue and subject matter jurisdiction

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GLOSSARY ENTRY (DERIVED FROM QUESTION BELOW)
German term or phrase:örtliche und sachliche Zuständigkeit
English translation:venue and subject matter jurisdiction
Entered by: Ralf Lemster
Options:
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16:21 Jan 12, 2003
German to English translations [PRO]
Law/Patents - Law (general) / East German restitutions
German term or phrase: seitens des erkennenden Gerichts
I have here a dandy of a phrase on which some help would be appreciated:
Schliesslich wird vorab angeregt, seitens des erkennenden Gerichts über die OERTLICHE UND SACHLICHE ZUSTAENDIGKEIT zu befinden.
The part in CAPS is what I need above all.
swisstell
Italy
Local time: 07:06
venue and jurisdiction over the subject
Explanation:
that's my suggestion.
Perhaps it helps a bit further.
Selected response from:

xxxGAK
Local time: 07:06
Grading comment
I agree with EZBless that it is "of" rather than "over" but in fact I think that more correct is how I entered it into the glossary, see below. Otherwise I like it, more so as I was myself looking at "venue". Sorry for the delay.
3 KudoZ points were awarded for this answer

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Summary of answers provided
5 +1whether the ruling court had territorial and subject matter jurisdiction
Maureen Holm, J.D., LL.M.
4 +1venue and jurisdiction over the subjectxxxGAK
3 +1Moderator's note (changed glossary entry)
Ralf Lemster
5 -1venue and jurisdiction of the subjectezbounty@aol.co
4territorial and subject matter jurisdictionPer Incuriam
4 -1I'd saygangels
4 -1territorial jurisdiction and jurisdiction over the subject matter
William Stein


  

Answers


6 mins   confidence: Answerer confidence 4/5Answerer confidence 4/5
territorial and subject matter jurisdiction


Explanation:
are standard terms

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Note added at 2003-01-12 16:40:38 (GMT)
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and \"the court seised of the matter\" for the other bit or if that\'s too legalistic \"the court hearing the matter\"

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Note added at 2003-01-12 16:46:57 (GMT)
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My *guess* as to the meaning of the whole thing: it is the court where the proceedings are first brought which should decide the issue as to which court is the proper court to hear the case.

Maybe that would make sense in the context.


--------------------------------------------------
Note added at 2003-01-12 16:47:11 (GMT)
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My *guess* as to the meaning of the whole thing: it is the court where the proceedings are first brought which should decide the issue as to which court is the proper court to hear the case.

Maybe that would make sense in the context.


Per Incuriam
Specializes in field
Native speaker of: Native in EnglishEnglish

Peer comments on this answer (and responses from the answerer)
neutral  Giusi Pasi: erkennendes Gericht= cognizance of the judge. It may be helpful
46 mins

agree  William Stein: my version differs only stylistically
1 hr

disagree  Kim Metzger: venue and subject matter jurisdiction
3124 days
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13 mins   confidence: Answerer confidence 4/5Answerer confidence 4/5 peer agreement (net): +1
venue and jurisdiction over the subject


Explanation:
that's my suggestion.
Perhaps it helps a bit further.

xxxGAK
Local time: 07:06
Native speaker of: Native in GermanGerman
PRO pts in category: 3
Grading comment
I agree with EZBless that it is "of" rather than "over" but in fact I think that more correct is how I entered it into the glossary, see below. Otherwise I like it, more so as I was myself looking at "venue". Sorry for the delay.

Peer comments on this answer (and responses from the answerer)
agree  Kim Metzger: venue and subject matter jurisdiction
3124 days
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48 mins   confidence: Answerer confidence 4/5Answerer confidence 4/5 peer agreement (net): -1
I'd say


Explanation:
In closing, the adjudicating court is being petitioned to rule on any jurisdiction re venue and case history

gangels
Local time: 23:06
Native speaker of: Native in EnglishEnglish, Native in GermanGerman
PRO pts in category: 229

Peer comments on this answer (and responses from the answerer)
disagree  Kim Metzger: venue and subject matter jurisdiction
3124 days
Login to enter a peer comment (or grade)

50 mins   confidence: Answerer confidence 5/5 peer agreement (net): -1
venue and jurisdiction of the subject


Explanation:
you would not say "over" but "of"

ezbounty@aol.co
Local time: 23:06
Works in field
Native speaker of: Native in EnglishEnglish, Native in GermanGerman
PRO pts in category: 11

Peer comments on this answer (and responses from the answerer)
disagree  Kim Metzger: You certainly would say "over." The subject can't have jurisdiction.
95 days
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1 hr   confidence: Answerer confidence 4/5Answerer confidence 4/5 peer agreement (net): -1
territorial jurisdiction and jurisdiction over the subject matter


Explanation:
jurisdiction: an overview
One of the most fundamental questions of law is whether a given court has jurisdiction to preside over a given case. A jurisdictional question may be broken down into three components: 1) jurisdiction over the person (in personam), 2) ***jurisdiction over the subject matter, or res***, and 3) jurisdiction to render the particular judgment sought. The term jurisdiction is really synonymous with the word "power". Any court possesses jurisdiction over matters only to the extent granted to it by the Constitution, or legislation of the sovereignty on behalf of which it functions. The question of whether a given court has the power to determine a jurisdictional question is included in this subject header. Such a legal question is referred to as "jurisdiction to determine jurisdiction."
Subject matter jurisdiction is the court's authority to decide the issue in controversy such as a contracts issue, or a civil rights issue. State courts have general jurisdiction, meaning that they can hear any controversy except those prohibited by state law (some states, for example, deny subject matter jurisdiction for a case that does not involve state citizens and did not take place in the state) and those allocated to federal courts of exclusive jurisdiction such as bankruptcy issues (see 28 U.S.C.A. § 1334). Federal courts have limited jurisdiction in that they can only hear cases that fall both within the scope defined by the Constitution in Article III Section 2 and Congressional statutes (See 28 U.S.C.A. §1251, §1253, §1331, §1332).
***Territorial jurisdiction*** is the court's power to bind the parties to the action. This law determines the scope of federal and state court power. State court territorial jurisdiction is determined by the Due Process Clause of the Constitution's Fourteenth Amendment and the federal court territorial jurisdiction is determined by the Due Process Clause of the Constitution's Fifth Amendment.


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Note added at 2003-01-12 17:36:11 (GMT)
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http://www.law.cornell.edu/topics/jurisdiction.html

William Stein
Costa Rica
Local time: 23:06
Specializes in field
Native speaker of: Native in EnglishEnglish
PRO pts in category: 17

Peer comments on this answer (and responses from the answerer)
disagree  Kim Metzger: venue and subject matter jurisdiction
3124 days
Login to enter a peer comment (or grade)

2 hrs   confidence: Answerer confidence 5/5 peer agreement (net): +1
whether the ruling court had territorial and subject matter jurisdiction


Explanation:
Finally [bzw. After all], the court to which application for recognition is made is first asked to determine whether the ruling court had [implied: properly exercised] territorial and subject matter jurisdiction.
Note: Courts reviewing foreign judgments for purposes of recognition do not concern themselves with local procedural rules regarding venue and forum-shopping. [MH: J.D., LL.M.]

Maureen Holm, J.D., LL.M.
United States
Local time: 01:06
Specializes in field
Native speaker of: Native in EnglishEnglish
PRO pts in category: 23

Peer comments on this answer (and responses from the answerer)
agree  Lydia Molea
2 hrs
  -> Thanks for the close read.

agree  wrtransco: venue and subject matter jurisdiction
9 hrs
  -> Must respectfully disagree that venue enters into it. Territorial reach is the issue. Consider, e.g. 'long-arm jurisdiction' which permits court to exercise jurisdiction beyond geogr. borders.

neutral  gangels: Says nothing about 2 courts (apply (?) to one, 'ruling' of other) It's an intra-German matter (East Germany-related restitution), so 'venue' is OK, IMO
19 hrs

disagree  Kim Metzger: 'Territorial jurisdiction' bezeichnet dagegen Territorialhoheit, Gebietshoheit sowie örtliche Zuständigkeit auf diplomatischer Ebene.
95 days
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14 days   confidence: Answerer confidence 3/5Answerer confidence 3/5 peer agreement (net): +1
Moderator's note (changed glossary entry)


Explanation:
Please note that I changed the glossary entry, following extensive discussions with various ProZ members (including a qualified lawyer).

What we need to distinguish here are two different legal concepts: legal venue ("örtliche Zuständigkeit"), which determines which court (within the same jurisdiction) is competent, as opposed to territorial jurisdiction, which refers to cross-jurisdictional issues.

I quote an explanation received in German (if anyone has a problem understanding it, please contact me directly):
"Der Vorschlag 'territorial...jurisdiction' verkennt das dem Begriff "örtliche Zuständigkeit" (=Gerichtsstand) zugrunde liegende Konzept, nämlich welches sachlich zuständige Gericht wg. seines Sitzes den Rechtsstreit zu erledigen hat. Dieses Konzept wird im Englischen (AE + BE) gemeinhin 'legal venue' genannt. 'Territorial jurisdiction' bezeichnet dagegen Territorialhoheit, Gebietshoheit sowie örtliche Zuständigkeit auf diplomatischer Ebene, hat also eine eher völkerrechtliche als gerichtsorganisatorische Bedeutung. In den USA bezieht sich 'territorial jurisdiction' insbesondere auf das Verhältnis zwischen einzelstaatlicher und bundesstaatlicher Gerichtsbarkeit (dies wurde auch erwähnt, entspricht jedoch nicht der deutschen örtlichen Zuständigkeit).

Der Peer-Grading-Vorschlag von Mag. RaWa, 'venue and subject matter jurisdiction' trifft's meiner Ansicht nach am besten - abweichende Vorschläge deuten auf eine Fehlinterpretation des zugrunde liegenden Zusammenhangs hin: hier wird 'erkennendes Gericht' als 'anerkennendes Gericht' in einem (amerikanischen!) Verfahren zur Anerkennung ausländischen Gerichtsurteile interpretiert; 'erkennendes' Gericht ist jedoch lediglich das mit der Sache befasste deutsche Gericht."


Ralf Lemster
Germany
Local time: 07:06
Works in field
Native speaker of: German
PRO pts in category: 35

Peer comments on this answer (and responses from the answerer)
agree  Kim Metzger: venue and subject matter jurisdiction
3110 days
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Changes made by editors
Jul 28, 2006 - Changes made by Steffen Walter:
Term askedseitens des erkennenden Gerichts (und etwas mehr) » seitens des erkennenden Gerichts
Field (specific)(none) » Law (general)


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