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Sei

English translation: rely on words like "allegedly"


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09:04 Jan 23, 2012
German to English translations [PRO]
Law/Patents - Law (general)
German term or phrase: Sei
In court opinions that are issued with a judgment, the court usually describes what the plaintiff and defendant are asserting with "sei" usw. (conjunctive - reported speech).

There has to be some indication in English that the court is merely reporting what the parties are ASSERTING. I usually use a lot of "allegedly"s and the like, but that gets old quick.

How do you handle several pages of statements that a party is merely asserting (to distinguish it from what the court thinks)?
Valerie35
Local time: 21:55
English translation:rely on words like "allegedly"
Explanation:
A newspaper would report this statement as follows:

Er sagte, er sei ein ehrlicher Mensch. Er habe kein Geld gestohlen. He said that he was an honest person. He hadn't stolen any money.

By using the special subjunctive, the newspaper is asserting its own neutrality concerning the claim's veracity. English does not provide so elegant a means. "He said that he was an honest person" - as opposed to "He said that he is an honest person" - is a kind of modified subjunctive that provides some distance, but it cannot be sustained over longer passages as easily as German's special subjunctive. Instead, English must rely on words like "allegedly" and frequent repetitions of "he said...."




--------------------------------------------------
Note added at 28 Min. (2012-01-23 09:32:17 GMT)
--------------------------------------------------

Er wolle uns helfen, aber er könne es heute nicht tun. [he says that] He wants to help us, but he can't do it today.

Sie sei kein Kind mehr. [she says that] She is no longer a child.

Sie schlafe gern auf dem Balkon. [she says that] She likes to sleep on the balcony.
past:
Er habe nicht gewusst, dass er seinen Hut vergessen habe. [he says that] He didn't know that he had forgotten his hat.

Sie habe einen Unfall gehabt, weil sie zu schnell gefahren sei. [she says that] She had an accident because she was driving too fast.
future:
Er werde in Zukunft mehr arbeiten. [he says that] He will work more in the future.

Sie werde uns bald besuchen. [she says that] She will visit us soon.
future perfect:
Er werde es vor Freitag fertig gemacht haben. [he says that] He will have finished it before Friday.

Sie werde bis dann alles gelesen haben. [she says that] She will have read everything by then
Selected response from:

Yuri Dubrov
Russian Federation
Local time: 23:55
Grading comment
Thanks
4 KudoZ points were awarded for this answer



Summary of answers provided
4 +3rely on words like "allegedly"
Yuri Dubrov
5 +1variesMargaret Marks
3; that ....; that ....;Horst Huber
4 -1was/would be/could have been/
Ramey Rieger


Discussion entries: 1





  

Answers


4 mins   confidence: Answerer confidence 4/5Answerer confidence 4/5 peer agreement (net): -1
was/would be/could have been/


Explanation:
This is the translation of "Sei" . Now, in which context?

Ramey Rieger
Local time: 21:55
Native speaker of: Native in EnglishEnglish
PRO pts in category: 15

Peer comments on this answer (and responses from the answerer)
disagree  Richard Nice: in the general context indicated by the asker. Question is clear even if keyword is not. Conditionals won't solve this.
1 hr

neutral  Cilian O'Tuama: This is not "the" translation, just "some possible" translations
16 hrs
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21 mins   confidence: Answerer confidence 4/5Answerer confidence 4/5 peer agreement (net): +3
rely on words like "allegedly"


Explanation:
A newspaper would report this statement as follows:

Er sagte, er sei ein ehrlicher Mensch. Er habe kein Geld gestohlen. He said that he was an honest person. He hadn't stolen any money.

By using the special subjunctive, the newspaper is asserting its own neutrality concerning the claim's veracity. English does not provide so elegant a means. "He said that he was an honest person" - as opposed to "He said that he is an honest person" - is a kind of modified subjunctive that provides some distance, but it cannot be sustained over longer passages as easily as German's special subjunctive. Instead, English must rely on words like "allegedly" and frequent repetitions of "he said...."




--------------------------------------------------
Note added at 28 Min. (2012-01-23 09:32:17 GMT)
--------------------------------------------------

Er wolle uns helfen, aber er könne es heute nicht tun. [he says that] He wants to help us, but he can't do it today.

Sie sei kein Kind mehr. [she says that] She is no longer a child.

Sie schlafe gern auf dem Balkon. [she says that] She likes to sleep on the balcony.
past:
Er habe nicht gewusst, dass er seinen Hut vergessen habe. [he says that] He didn't know that he had forgotten his hat.

Sie habe einen Unfall gehabt, weil sie zu schnell gefahren sei. [she says that] She had an accident because she was driving too fast.
future:
Er werde in Zukunft mehr arbeiten. [he says that] He will work more in the future.

Sie werde uns bald besuchen. [she says that] She will visit us soon.
future perfect:
Er werde es vor Freitag fertig gemacht haben. [he says that] He will have finished it before Friday.

Sie werde bis dann alles gelesen haben. [she says that] She will have read everything by then



    Reference: http://www.dartmouth.edu/~german/Grammatik/Subjunctive/Konju...
Yuri Dubrov
Russian Federation
Local time: 23:55
Specializes in field
Native speaker of: Native in RussianRussian
PRO pts in category: 4
Grading comment
Thanks

Peer comments on this answer (and responses from the answerer)
agree  Bettina Rittsteuer: You can also vary between e.g. "it was said/alleged that", "... was said to ...", "the Plaintiff/Defendant claimed/alleged that ..."
10 mins
  -> ok thanks

agree  Steffen Walter: with Bettina
45 mins
  -> Danke

neutral  Richard Nice: asker knows this.
1 hr
  -> allegedly

agree  Thayenga
4 hrs
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2 hrs   confidence: Answerer confidence 5/5 peer agreement (net): +1
varies


Explanation:
Not really a vocab q, is it? Sometimes put reporting verb into past tense, so tenses can be shifted back in English. Still have to pepper with 'according to X' etc. Sometimes the layout makes it clear that the reported speech is continuing. I don't use 'allegedly' as a bit too negative.

Margaret Marks
Germany
Local time: 21:55
Native speaker of: Native in EnglishEnglish
PRO pts in category: 248

Peer comments on this answer (and responses from the answerer)
agree  writeaway
41 mins
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12 hrs   confidence: Answerer confidence 3/5Answerer confidence 3/5
; that ....; that ....;


Explanation:
From older books I am familiar with endless sequences using ellipsis, repeating merely the conjunction, and leaving implied the word corresponding to "stated". Of course, nowadays, nothing is feared more than looking "old-fashioned."

Horst Huber
Local time: 15:55
Native speaker of: Native in GermanGerman
PRO pts in category: 27
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