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Rechtsbestand

English translation: legal existence or legality

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GLOSSARY ENTRY (DERIVED FROM QUESTION BELOW)
German term or phrase:Rechtsbestand
English translation:legal existence or legality
Entered by: Dr. Fred Thomson
Options:
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21:41 Aug 10, 2004
German to English translations [PRO]
Law/Patents - Law (general) / international law
German term or phrase: Rechtsbestand
This term appears in a commentary on Swiss laws concerning the law to be applied to corporations.
Here is the sentence in German:
Die Literatur vor dem IPRG rückt die Klarheit des Anknüpfungspunktes und die Sicherheit des Rechtsbestandes der ausländischen Gesellschaft in den Vordergrund.
Here is my draft translation:
It places the clarity of the point of contact and the certainty of the "Rechtsbestand" of the foreign corporation in the foreground.
Dr. Fred Thomson
United States
Local time: 22:44
legal constancy
Explanation:
...is my fist thought.

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Note added at 6 mins (2004-08-10 21:48:13 GMT)
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Perhaps \"legal continuance\" works better - it makes sense to me.

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Note added at 16 mins (2004-08-10 21:57:46 GMT)
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Otherwise I\'d say something like \"legal patrimony\", as in \"common patrimony\" (=\"acquis communautaire\" =\"Rechtsbestand der EU\".

Perhaps the author meant \"des rechtlichen Bestands\" which could be translated as \"(continued) legal existence\".

I hope I could help (a bit).
:-)

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Note added at 3 hrs 27 mins (2004-08-11 01:09:11 GMT)
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If this is about Art. 150 et. seqq. of the Swiss Bundesgesetz über das Internationale Privatrecht (IPRG) (Swiss Federal Act on
Private International Law) then I\'ll stay with \"legal existence\" or \"legal status\", as these articles describe how a foreign company is considered a company under Swiss law if it was legally incorporated in the country it comes from (I know it\'s not pretty, but it\'s late).

Take a look at those articles and see if you agree that the clarity of the \"connections/links\" (triggering the jurisdiction of one country or another) and the \"security of a foreign companies\' legal existence/status in Switzerland\" is indeed in the foreground (see: http://www.admin.ch/ch/d/sr/291/index.html#fn3).

For \"connection\" as \"Anknüpfungspunkt\" see:
\"Germany 16 September 1991 District Court Frankfurt [translation ... - [ Diese Seite übersetzen ]
... the CISG (see Martiny, in: MüKo [*], Volume VII, EGBGB [*] / International Private
Law, 2nd edition ... be governed by the law that has the \"closest connection\" to ...
www.cisg.law.pace.edu/cisg/wais/db/cases2/910916g1.html - 32k - Im Cache - Ähnliche Seiten\".

I\'ve also seen \"link\" used quite often in this context; \"point of contact\" suggests to me something a bit different.

Good night & good luck! I couldn\'t find an internet version of the English translation of the law (though there is at least one published), but I don\'t think you\'ll need one... ;-)

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Note added at 3 hrs 29 mins (2004-08-11 01:10:39 GMT)
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I take that back about \"connection\" and \"link\", but the rest stays the same. It is late and I\'m going to bed...
Selected response from:

Derek Gill Franßen
Germany
Local time: 06:44
Grading comment
Thank you, Derek, and all contributors. Special thanks to both Ingrid and Counsel for their extra suggestions. I do like "legality," but "legal existence" has the edge.
4 KudoZ points were awarded for this answer

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Summary of answers provided
4 +1legal realityxxxdesiderata
3 +1legal validity
Johanna Timm, PhD
4s.u.Ingrid Blank
3legality/ subsistence at law (of the corp.)xxxKirstyMacC
3 -1legal constancy
Derek Gill Franßen
3 -1corpus of legislation
Brainstorm


Discussion entries: 4





  

Answers


1 hr   confidence: Answerer confidence 4/5Answerer confidence 4/5 peer agreement (net): +1
legal reality


Explanation:
The dramatic operative terms lie outside of what is put to us. Those terms are "Sicherheit" and "Klarheit." The court is intent on pushing clear lines that can be followed by the great majority of lawyers and judges about the "legal reality" of the corps that appear before them.

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Note added at 1 hr 17 mins (2004-08-10 22:59:11 GMT)
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However funny it sounds to a common law lawyer, they (the civil lawyers) worry about \"legal reality.\" They reify everything in the Hegel\'s tradition!

--------------------------------------------------
Note added at 1 hr 21 mins (2004-08-10 23:03:14 GMT)
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As alternative; legal substance.

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Note added at 1 hr 24 mins (2004-08-10 23:06:18 GMT)
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No, in this context: legal reality.

--------------------------------------------------
Note added at 1 hr 36 mins (2004-08-10 23:18:23 GMT)
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No, in this context: legal reality.

xxxdesiderata
Native speaker of: Native in EnglishEnglish
PRO pts in category: 64

Peer comments on this answer (and responses from the answerer)
agree  Giusi Pasi: it's very used in Italian legalese (l. substance) exactly with this meaning. In Italian it is "sostanza legale".
17 mins
  -> You like legal substance? What's the Italian? Che e l'italiano?
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4 mins   confidence: Answerer confidence 3/5Answerer confidence 3/5 peer agreement (net): -1
legal constancy


Explanation:
...is my fist thought.

--------------------------------------------------
Note added at 6 mins (2004-08-10 21:48:13 GMT)
--------------------------------------------------

Perhaps \"legal continuance\" works better - it makes sense to me.

--------------------------------------------------
Note added at 16 mins (2004-08-10 21:57:46 GMT)
--------------------------------------------------

Otherwise I\'d say something like \"legal patrimony\", as in \"common patrimony\" (=\"acquis communautaire\" =\"Rechtsbestand der EU\".

Perhaps the author meant \"des rechtlichen Bestands\" which could be translated as \"(continued) legal existence\".

I hope I could help (a bit).
:-)

--------------------------------------------------
Note added at 3 hrs 27 mins (2004-08-11 01:09:11 GMT)
--------------------------------------------------

If this is about Art. 150 et. seqq. of the Swiss Bundesgesetz über das Internationale Privatrecht (IPRG) (Swiss Federal Act on
Private International Law) then I\'ll stay with \"legal existence\" or \"legal status\", as these articles describe how a foreign company is considered a company under Swiss law if it was legally incorporated in the country it comes from (I know it\'s not pretty, but it\'s late).

Take a look at those articles and see if you agree that the clarity of the \"connections/links\" (triggering the jurisdiction of one country or another) and the \"security of a foreign companies\' legal existence/status in Switzerland\" is indeed in the foreground (see: http://www.admin.ch/ch/d/sr/291/index.html#fn3).

For \"connection\" as \"Anknüpfungspunkt\" see:
\"Germany 16 September 1991 District Court Frankfurt [translation ... - [ Diese Seite übersetzen ]
... the CISG (see Martiny, in: MüKo [*], Volume VII, EGBGB [*] / International Private
Law, 2nd edition ... be governed by the law that has the \"closest connection\" to ...
www.cisg.law.pace.edu/cisg/wais/db/cases2/910916g1.html - 32k - Im Cache - Ähnliche Seiten\".

I\'ve also seen \"link\" used quite often in this context; \"point of contact\" suggests to me something a bit different.

Good night & good luck! I couldn\'t find an internet version of the English translation of the law (though there is at least one published), but I don\'t think you\'ll need one... ;-)

--------------------------------------------------
Note added at 3 hrs 29 mins (2004-08-11 01:10:39 GMT)
--------------------------------------------------

I take that back about \"connection\" and \"link\", but the rest stays the same. It is late and I\'m going to bed...

Derek Gill Franßen
Germany
Local time: 06:44
Specializes in field
Native speaker of: English
PRO pts in category: 728
Grading comment
Thank you, Derek, and all contributors. Special thanks to both Ingrid and Counsel for their extra suggestions. I do like "legality," but "legal existence" has the edge.

Peer comments on this answer (and responses from the answerer)
disagree  xxxdesiderata: My night to disagree with you! :>) There is nothing anyhere in my experience or on the books that lets "legal constancy" sound good.
53 mins
  -> You're right, "legal constancy" is and sounds wrong. I think I'll go with "legal existence" - "existence" also means "das Bestehen"... please feel free to disagree, if you feel so inclined. :-)
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4 hrs   confidence: Answerer confidence 4/5Answerer confidence 4/5
s.u.


Explanation:
I agree with Derek on legal existence
Anknüpfungspunkt - connecting factor, which indicates the legal system to which the factual situation under consideration is related

Dietl/Lorenz



Ingrid Blank
PRO pts in category: 171
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5 hrs   confidence: Answerer confidence 3/5Answerer confidence 3/5 peer agreement (net): -1
corpus of legislation


Explanation:
The EU either uses "legislation" or "corpus of legislation" but often the French word "acquis"
http://europa.eu.int/comm/enlargement/report_11_00/



    Reference: http://europa.eu.int/scadplus/printversion/en/lvb/l33205.htm
    Reference: http://europa.eu.int/scadplus/leg/de/lvb/l33205.htm
Brainstorm
Austria
Local time: 06:44
Native speaker of: Native in EnglishEnglish, Native in GermanGerman
PRO pts in category: 12

Peer comments on this answer (and responses from the answerer)
disagree  Ingrid Blank: this is something totally different, namely a compilation of laws
1 hr

neutral  Victor Dewsbery: (January 2009) Brainstorm's idea might not fit the original context, but it is just the ticket for my present job (which is about Austrian law)
1605 days
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10 hrs   confidence: Answerer confidence 3/5Answerer confidence 3/5
legality/ subsistence at law (of the corp.)


Explanation:
Unsure there can be 'certainty' of a nexus, link or connecting factor.

Subsistence is a legal term of art and is also used for marriage and copyright etc.


BTW: rückt in Vordergrund > gives priority or pride of place to.

'toe) n. the name for a writ (order) used to challenge another's right to either public or corporate office or challenge the *legality of a corporation* to its ...'



    dictionary.law.com/definition2. asp?selected=1713&bold=%7C%7C%7C%7C
xxxKirstyMacC
Local time: 05:44
Native speaker of: Native in EnglishEnglish
PRO pts in category: 188
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7 hrs   confidence: Answerer confidence 3/5Answerer confidence 3/5 peer agreement (net): +1
legal validity


Explanation:
as seem here
www.european-patent-office.org/ dg3/g_dec/pdf/g890003.pdf


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Note added at 7 hrs 57 mins (2004-08-11 05:39:04 GMT)
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*seen*, sorry

--------------------------------------------------
Note added at 17 hrs 44 mins (2004-08-11 15:26:07 GMT) Post-grading
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www.european-patent-office.org/dg3/g_dec/pdf/g890003.pdf

Johanna Timm, PhD
Canada
Local time: 21:44
Specializes in field
Native speaker of: Native in GermanGerman
PRO pts in category: 637

Peer comments on this answer (and responses from the answerer)
agree  Margaret Marks: This is the usual translation in this context.
6 hrs
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