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Pls check this!

English translation: An attempt from an old, worn out lawyer:

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20:46 Mar 18, 2002
German to English translations [PRO]
Law/Patents
German term or phrase: Pls check this!
Die Normen X gelten "soweit durch die vorstehenden Unterlagen laut Punkt 2 oder sonst nichts anders schriftlich vereinbart ist."

Am I right to assume that these standards are applicable as described in Para 2, UNLESS there is a written agreement? The sentence sounds strange and I might be tired, too.
Eva Blanar
Hungary
Local time: 17:12
English translation:An attempt from an old, worn out lawyer:
Explanation:
The x standards shall apply provided that no other written agreement has been reached (1) by means of the aforementioned documents as set forth in paragraph 2 or (2)in some other way.
You can susstitute "item" for "paragraph" if you wish.
Selected response from:

Dr. Fred Thomson
United States
Local time: 09:12
Grading comment
God bless you all for the help you gave me! Special thanks to Klaus for the confirmation that it did sound strange in German and for the explanation he gave - basically identical with the one in the selected answer, but we can't split the points. Thanks, Eva
4 KudoZ points were awarded for this answer

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Summary of answers provided
5 +7NO
Klaus Herrmann
5 +7An attempt from an old, worn out lawyer:
Dr. Fred Thomson
4 +1. . . as long as . . .Michael Sebold
4 +1the standards X shall apply...
Johanna Timm, PhD
4to the extent that nothing else has been agreed upon in writing through...or otherwiseMary Wilburn
4The standards under X apply
Ursula Peter-Czichi
4insofar as/as long as
Kim Metzger
4yes
jccantrell
4 -1I read it like thisKlaus Dorn


  

Answers


5 mins   confidence: Answerer confidence 4/5Answerer confidence 4/5
yes


Explanation:
I understand it the same way.

Not so strange. There may be company standards that are more stringent than the official ones.

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Note added at 2002-03-18 20:52:44 (GMT)
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also, the company standards or documents may miss something that IS covered in the standards

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Note added at 2002-03-18 20:53:50 (GMT)
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except the standards are NOT in 2, but other documents may be.

jccantrell
United States
Local time: 08:12
Native speaker of: Native in EnglishEnglish
PRO pts in pair: 4598
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6 mins   confidence: Answerer confidence 4/5Answerer confidence 4/5
insofar as/as long as


Explanation:
Hope this helps

Kim Metzger
Mexico
Local time: 10:12
Native speaker of: Native in EnglishEnglish
PRO pts in pair: 21825

Peer comments on this answer (and responses from the answerer)
neutral  wrtransco: not the standard legalese in this context.
1 hr
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7 mins   confidence: Answerer confidence 4/5Answerer confidence 4/5 peer agreement (net): -1
I read it like this


Explanation:
it means that the standards are valid as long as they are covered by para 2 and if there is no other written agreement contradicting the valuidity of the standards...

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Note added at 2002-03-18 20:59:20 (GMT)
--------------------------------------------------

sorry, I meant of course \"validity\"...I\'m tired too...

Klaus Dorn
Local time: 18:12
Native speaker of: Native in EnglishEnglish, Native in GermanGerman
PRO pts in pair: 1514

Peer comments on this answer (and responses from the answerer)
agree  Friedrich Reinold
5 mins

disagree  wrtransco: nichts bezieht sich auch auf den Punkt 2
16 mins

disagree  John Kinory: Agree with RaWa
3 hrs
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8 mins   confidence: Answerer confidence 4/5Answerer confidence 4/5 peer agreement (net): +1
. . . as long as . . .


Explanation:
in accordance with paragraph 2., or otherwise, no agreement to the contrary has been made.

--------------------------------------------------
Note added at 2002-03-18 21:07:37 (GMT)
--------------------------------------------------

Agreement to the contrary was, of course, supposed to be \". . . no written agreement to the contrary . . .\"
:)

Michael Sebold
Canada
Local time: 11:12
PRO pts in pair: 283

Peer comments on this answer (and responses from the answerer)
agree  Klaus Herrmann
45 mins
  -> Thanks, Klaus. I took no offense at all - you took the time to provide a clear account of how it all fits together, and you deserve to post your answer.
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13 mins   confidence: Answerer confidence 4/5Answerer confidence 4/5 peer agreement (net): +1
the standards X shall apply...


Explanation:
unless - based on the above documents and here with special reference to item 2- other spefic written agreements have been made.


    Reference: http://danr.ucop.edu/admin-handbook/200/203pre.html
Johanna Timm, PhD
Canada
Local time: 08:12
Native speaker of: Native in GermanGerman
PRO pts in pair: 7258

Peer comments on this answer (and responses from the answerer)
agree  Klaus Herrmann
40 mins
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17 mins   confidence: Answerer confidence 5/5 peer agreement (net): +7
NO


Explanation:
Sorry, but I read something different from the German sentence:

The standards X apply unless something else has been agreed upon in writing, in the forementioned documents according to paragraph 2 or otherwise.

The sentences does sounds strange. This is how I dissected it:

Die Standards x gelten - The standards x apply)

soweit ... nichts anderes schriftlich vereinbart ist - unless something else has been agreed upoen in writing.

The "durch die vorstehenden Unterlagen lt. Punkt2 oder sonst" merely describes the "instrument" of making different arrangements - by the documents and paragraph 2 as well as by other means, (as long as it is in writing).

I'm pretty sure about the German part, but hopefully, you'll get more input.


--------------------------------------------------
Note added at 2002-03-18 21:08:26 (GMT)
--------------------------------------------------

\"...you\'ll get more input.\" - Hey, there was only one reply when I posted that. No offense meant.

Another point I would like to bring to your attention: If paragraph 2 is to \"confirm\" the standard, shouldn\'t we see an corresponding verb after \"laut Punkt 2\"?

Klaus Herrmann
Germany
Local time: 17:12
Native speaker of: Native in GermanGerman
PRO pts in pair: 3373

Peer comments on this answer (and responses from the answerer)
agree  Michael Sebold: That's how I read it - although I forgot the "written" bit.
1 min

agree  wrtransco: bezieht sich auf beides
7 mins

agree  Johanna Timm, PhD: that's what I tried to convey in my attempt
31 mins
  -> Sorry, as I said, there was only the first reply when I posted mine.

agree  Eckhard Boehle
1 hr

agree  John Kinory: Yes - good logical dissection
3 hrs

agree  Agnieszka Hayward: yes, and I agree with John Kinory
4 hrs

agree  Marc S.
12 hrs
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53 mins   confidence: Answerer confidence 5/5 peer agreement (net): +7
An attempt from an old, worn out lawyer:


Explanation:
The x standards shall apply provided that no other written agreement has been reached (1) by means of the aforementioned documents as set forth in paragraph 2 or (2)in some other way.
You can susstitute "item" for "paragraph" if you wish.

Dr. Fred Thomson
United States
Local time: 09:12
Native speaker of: English
PRO pts in pair: 5861
Grading comment
God bless you all for the help you gave me! Special thanks to Klaus for the confirmation that it did sound strange in German and for the explanation he gave - basically identical with the one in the selected answer, but we can't split the points. Thanks, Eva

Peer comments on this answer (and responses from the answerer)
agree  Johanna Timm, PhD
1 min
  -> Thanks, Johanna

agree  Klaus Herrmann: We can't argue with a lawyer, can we?
1 min
  -> People do it all the time (and often successfully).

agree  Michael Sebold
2 hrs
  -> Thank you, Micahel.

agree  John Kinory: My greatest satisfaction is when I prove a logical point to my solicitor. Here, your analysis is spot on.
2 hrs
  -> Thanks, John. I am a;ways pleased when I get an agreement from you.

agree  Agnieszka Hayward: sounds very much to the point, also style is kept (are you 'worn out' or just 'well experienced'? bravo!
4 hrs

agree  Marc S.
11 hrs

agree  ingot
18 hrs
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58 mins   confidence: Answerer confidence 4/5Answerer confidence 4/5
The standards under X apply


Explanation:
unless superceded by standards under paragraph 2 of this document or other written agreements.

That's how I understand that sentence.
(I know it's not quite literal!)

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Note added at 2002-03-18 21:47:45 (GMT)
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I did not mean to argue with a lawyer, I did not see the above answer in time.

Ursula Peter-Czichi
United States
Local time: 11:12
PRO pts in pair: 242

Peer comments on this answer (and responses from the answerer)
neutral  Dr. Fred Thomson: Lawyers don't know everything! And remember, whenever one lawyer says "A" another lawyer will jump up and say"B," or "Z."
3 hrs
  -> Well, my sentence does say exactly the same as Fred Thompson's, just not in such official legaleze. I do think that one set of standards must supercede the other. Otherwise, nobody could ever know, which standards actually ar valid.
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2 hrs   confidence: Answerer confidence 4/5Answerer confidence 4/5
to the extent that nothing else has been agreed upon in writing through...or otherwise


Explanation:
Substitute DA for the prepositional phrase beginning with "durch" and it is clear that the standards are valid to the extent that nothing else has been agreed upon in writing DADURCH or otherwise. Thus, a WRITING consistent with the referenced documents OR ANY OTHER WRITING would limit the extent of the validity of the documents.

Mary Wilburn
United States
Local time: 11:12
Native speaker of: Native in EnglishEnglish
PRO pts in pair: 76
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