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Vorhalt

English translation: In reference to

GLOSSARY ENTRY (DERIVED FROM QUESTION BELOW)
German term or phrase:über Vorhalt
English translation:In reference to
Entered by: profile removed (X)

11:03 May 19, 2001
German to English translations [PRO]
Law/Patents - Law (general)
German term or phrase: Vorhalt
This is more regarding a previously asked question:

"Ueber Vorhalt, dass Heidi Hochleitner und Wenzel Weyrich ueberstimmend angeben, mit eigenen Augen gesehen zu haben, ..."

I am considering using the word "rebuke" or "objection" for "Vorhalt" in my translation of this legal transcript. "Rebuke" doesn't seem to really be a good legal term, however. What word would someone suggest? Is "accusation" or even just "assertion" more appropriate?

Thank you.
Ron Stelter
Local time: 21:51
contention ('as regards the contention that...')
Explanation:
contention ( As regards the contention that….)

Sorry Ctrans, you’re definitely wrong; ’Vorhalt’ is real German ‘legalese’ - Take a look at the appended section of the German criminal procedure code (no.2 below)

How to translate it? I think in your case I would go with ‘contention’ (or possibly the ‘claim’ or ‘assertion’, ‘statement’). I would keep it sufficiently vague unless you’re sure of what its referring back to e.g. statements of case/ witness evidence etc.
Sorry that I can't think of anything more better, but the lack of deep context (who made the Vorhalt & when etc.) makes it difficult to think of anything more dynamic or to know if 'objection' would fit.

Nice examples of Vorhalt appearing in legal texts
1) Über vorhalt AS 89, wonach ein Stier beim Abladevorgang gestürzt sei, bzw. beim Transport offenbar Verletzungen im Kopfbereich erlitten habe, gebe ich an, daß ich diesbezüglich keine eigenen Wahrnehmungen gemacht habe.
http://www.nitsch.org/ien/behoerden/981104.htm

2) Daraufhin rief Adelheid im Lagerhaus an, wo M*** sich meldete und über Vorhalt der Adelheid R*** zugab, daß er angerufen habe. Er sagte, er wolle Adelheid R*** alles erklären, er wolle sich mit ihr


3) § 253 (Vorhalt früherer Aussagen als Gedächtnisstütze)
(1) Erklärt ein Zeuge oder Sachverständiger, daß er sich einer Tatsache nicht mehr erinnere, so kann der hierauf bezügliche Teil des Protokolls über seine frühere Vernehmung zur Unterstützung seines Gedächtnisses verlesen werden.
http://www.gesetze-xxl.de/gesetze/stpo/p253.htm
Selected response from:

berelin
Local time: 04:51
Grading comment
I thank you for your help. Your suggestion seemed to fit much more with what I felt was right. I hadn't really expected to unleash such a lively debate.

But I really felt your answer was the most suitable one.

Thank you very much.

ronjon
4 KudoZ points were awarded for this answer



Summary of answers provided
naSubject to...
profile removed (X)
naquery , putting something to the witness
Ulrike Lieder (X)
naSubject to
profile removed (X)
nacontention ('as regards the contention that...')
berelin
naminor slip
berelin
naas regards the conflicting submission/claim/evidence that
berelin
na"berelin" is wrong
profile removed (X)
nagenerally agreeable compromise (I hope)
profile removed (X)
na"contention" is definitely wrong
profile removed (X)


  

Answers


10 mins
Subject to...


Explanation:
No, it's not "rebuke" or "objection";

the whole thing should be as follows, roughly:

Subject to ..... stating for the record to have witnessed....

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1 hr
query , putting something to the witness


Explanation:
I'm not so sure that "subject to" is correct in this context (that would be Vorbehalt, not Vorhalt).

Acc. to Romain,
Vorhalt - query, argumentativ question, putting s.th. to the witness
einen Vorhalt machen - to put it to the witness

And that should fit into your context -
when it was put to the witness that HH and WW stated ...
or
being queried / questioned on the statements made by HH and WW...

See how that works. HTH!


    Romain, Legal & Commercial Terms
Ulrike Lieder (X)
Local time: 19:51
Native speaker of: German
PRO pts in category: 20

Peer comments on this answer (and responses from the answerer)
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Vesna Zivcic
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1 hr
Subject to


Explanation:
Vorhalt is only an Austrian variant on Vorbehalt.


    Years of experience in Austria
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Ulrike Lieder (X)
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2 hrs
contention ('as regards the contention that...')


Explanation:
contention ( As regards the contention that….)

Sorry Ctrans, you’re definitely wrong; ’Vorhalt’ is real German ‘legalese’ - Take a look at the appended section of the German criminal procedure code (no.2 below)

How to translate it? I think in your case I would go with ‘contention’ (or possibly the ‘claim’ or ‘assertion’, ‘statement’). I would keep it sufficiently vague unless you’re sure of what its referring back to e.g. statements of case/ witness evidence etc.
Sorry that I can't think of anything more better, but the lack of deep context (who made the Vorhalt & when etc.) makes it difficult to think of anything more dynamic or to know if 'objection' would fit.

Nice examples of Vorhalt appearing in legal texts
1) Über vorhalt AS 89, wonach ein Stier beim Abladevorgang gestürzt sei, bzw. beim Transport offenbar Verletzungen im Kopfbereich erlitten habe, gebe ich an, daß ich diesbezüglich keine eigenen Wahrnehmungen gemacht habe.
http://www.nitsch.org/ien/behoerden/981104.htm

2) Daraufhin rief Adelheid im Lagerhaus an, wo M*** sich meldete und über Vorhalt der Adelheid R*** zugab, daß er angerufen habe. Er sagte, er wolle Adelheid R*** alles erklären, er wolle sich mit ihr


3) § 253 (Vorhalt früherer Aussagen als Gedächtnisstütze)
(1) Erklärt ein Zeuge oder Sachverständiger, daß er sich einer Tatsache nicht mehr erinnere, so kann der hierauf bezügliche Teil des Protokolls über seine frühere Vernehmung zur Unterstützung seines Gedächtnisses verlesen werden.
http://www.gesetze-xxl.de/gesetze/stpo/p253.htm



    URLs
    years of experience in Germany ;-)
berelin
Local time: 04:51
Native speaker of: Native in EnglishEnglish
PRO pts in category: 4
Grading comment
I thank you for your help. Your suggestion seemed to fit much more with what I felt was right. I hadn't really expected to unleash such a lively debate.

But I really felt your answer was the most suitable one.

Thank you very much.

ronjon

Peer comments on this answer (and responses from the answerer)
profile removed (X)
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2 hrs
minor slip


Explanation:
God, did I really write 'more better' in my last posting? .... and I call myself a translator - what is the world coming to?

berelin
Local time: 04:51
Native speaker of: Native in EnglishEnglish
PRO pts in category: 4

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2 hrs
as regards the conflicting submission/claim/evidence that


Explanation:
perhaps 'conflicting'would be apt here (depends on previous context) then the whole para. would read

"as regards the conflicting submission that xxx and yyy both claim to have seen with their own eyes..."
+ übereinstimmig has to go in there somewhere but am v. tired.


Maybe that helps

berelin
Local time: 04:51
Native speaker of: Native in EnglishEnglish
PRO pts in category: 4

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3 hrs
"berelin" is wrong


Explanation:
Sorry, berelin, but you cannot equate German legal terminology with Austrian terms just like that.

Don't mind your "more better"; your general approach to different regional varieties is off!

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Ulrike Lieder (X)
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3 hrs
generally agreeable compromise (I hope)


Explanation:
By way of a compromise and a workable solution to this problem, I recommend the following:

Invoking the statements of HH and WW ....

How's that?

But more context would be appreciated (e.g., 1-2 sentences before).

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3 hrs
"contention" is definitely wrong


Explanation:
Contention is the wrong term, no matter what. Contention is an unproved allegation. If we are to employ the German meaning of Vorhalt to this context, then it would be a statement on record, one that has already been proved, one that has already obtained some legal effect of sorts. Contention, however, is not Vorhalt (even under German law).

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Ulrike Lieder (X)
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