demjenigen - to the one ( translation glossary) Linguistics,Art/Literary

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GLOSSARY ENTRY (DERIVED FROM QUESTION BELOW)

German term or phrase:	demjenigen
English translation:	to the one
Entered by:	Kim Metzger

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11:26pm Jul 16, 2004

German to English translations [PRO]
Art/Literary - Linguistics

German term or phrase: demjenigen

Context: Milde behandlung demjenigen, der seine Verbrechen gesteht.

Jianming

KudoZ activity
Questions: 2025 (4 open)
Answers: 1171

China

Clarification request(s) and response

Trudy Peters: 1:30am Jul 17, 2004: You may be able to put the arguments to rest, if you gave us more context... -
Jianming (asker): 6:31am Jul 17, 2004: Thank you all for help. - Milde behandlung demjenigen, der seine Verbrechen gesteht; strenge Bestrafung demjenigen, der sich widersetzt.
Not too much context. It¡¯s a kind of political slogan.

Jianming (asker): 4:34pm Jul 17, 2004: Thank you all! - All of you have good points! But I think what writeaway meant is "for him/her who....:)"
Jianming (asker): 4:37pm Jul 17, 2004: Thank you all for help! I am sorry I cannot split the points. -

to the person

Explanation:
This is the dative case of derjenige - the one.
The person who confesses his crimes will receive lenient treatment.

Selected response from:

Kim Metzger
Mexico

Note from asker to answerer

Thank you all for contribution!
4 KudoZ points were awarded for this answer

Summary of answers provided

4 +5

to the person

Kim Metzger

4 +2

of those

Elvira Stoianov

4 +1

(should be granted) to the person who (or to whoever) confesses...

Maria Ferstl

2 +2

anyone who admits to wrongdoing will dealt with leniently

writeaway

he who

cjperera

Answers

2 mins confidence:

peer agreement (net): +5

to the person

Explanation:
This is the dative case of derjenige - the one.
The person who confesses his crimes will receive lenient treatment.

Kim Metzger
Mexico
Works in field
Native speaker of:

English
PRO pts in category: 119

Note from asker to answerer

Thank you all for contribution!

Peer comments on this answer (and responses from the answerer)

agree

Kevin Pfeiffer: but doesn't the dativ suggest an 'of' relationship?

9 mins

-> Literally: Lenient treatment to the one who confesses his crimes. ADDED: How would you translate "gib es ihm"?

agree

Robert Schlarb: Congratulations, compared with the other answers, you apparently belong to the minority of English speakers *to whom* the cases in English still make a difference

47 mins

-> Yes, whom is still required in "edited" English when it's the object of a preposition.

neutral

cjperera: Dr. Schlarb, what are you on about? (see my answer below). Anyway, a quick check on Google for 'for he who confesses' brings up 3 times as many results as 'for him who confesses', with most of these being biblical type passages. I cannot agree.

53 mins

agree

Dr. Fred Thomson: Absolutely. It is disgusting to hear people on television and elsewhere murdering the English language. In America one is considered to be elitist if one differentiates between "he" and "him."

1 hr

agree

Trudy Peters: But since Kim didn't say anything about who or whom, where does this discussion come from? This should be directed at Cillín. Another option would be "to the one who"

1 hr

agree

EdithK

6 hrs

3 mins confidence:

peer agreement (net): +2

of those

Explanation:
of the person

Elvira Stoianov
Luxembourg
Native speaker of:

Romanian,

Hungarian
PRO pts in category: 8

14 mins confidence:

peer agreement (net): +1

(should be granted) to the person who (or to whoever) confesses...

Explanation:
From the context you should be able to decide if it's meant in general (to whoever) or not.

Maria Ferstl
Greece
Specializes in field
Native speaker of:

German

2 hrs confidence:

peer agreement (net): +2

anyone who admits to wrongdoing will dealt with leniently

Explanation:
As Trudy says, the lack of context is causing too many problems. Since this is such a sweeping statement (UNLESS there is a specific context), I find the absoluteness of commiting a crime, confessing it and then gettting lenient treatment a bit far fetched as a general statememt. So I have downgraded crime to wrongdoing. Context is always the map one uses on the road to translation and without it, getting lost is a sure thing.

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Note added at 2 hrs 30 mins (2004-07-17 01:56:43 GMT)
--------------------------------------------------

please read: will BE dealt with....

writeaway
Works in field
Native speaker of:

English
PRO pts in category: 12

3 mins confidence:

he who

Explanation:
(der jenige)

Mild treatment for he who confesses his crimes.

--------------------------------------------------
Note added at 2 hrs 52 mins (2004-07-17 02:18:37 GMT)
--------------------------------------------------

Lenient treatment for she/her who confesses her crimes.

cjperera
Switzerland
Native speaker of:

English
PRO pts in category: 4

Peer comments on this answer (and responses from the answerer)

agree

SwissTell

12 mins

neutral

Robert Schlarb: don't you mean "for him"?

44 mins

-> No. You mean 'for him who' right? No. That sounds rather grammatically incorrect to me...

disagree

Dr. Fred Thomson: You're right. Incorrect usage IS part of the language, as is extreme profanity, but translators should avoid incorrect usage unless the source language is commensurately incorrect.

1 hr

-> ok. i'll stick to the view, however, that a language is fluid and is defined by it's usage - and in a case where we see overwhelming common usage, (google "him who" 634,000; "he who"1,550,000) we must except that it IS part of the language! :)

disagree

Trudy Peters: Sorry, for *him* who. Never mind biblical passages. - Sure, but common usage in biblical passages has nothing to do with business English. - Of course, we don't really know what the context is...

1 hr

-> Biblical was because I searched for "x who confesses". Not a common business term. However, www-1.ibm.com/mediumbusiness/resources/ whitepapers/whitepaper.jsp?contentId=2961 for example, is a business usage... Anyway, point taken (on both sides I hope)!

agree

Gareth McMillan: IMHO- there will be mild treatment for he/she who misses the point here. "He who misses the point" is taken as a single entity in English and, as such, cannot be cased as it is a composite word. "For him" in this context sounds plain ridiculous.

12 hrs

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German: demjenigen

English translation: to the one