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Two carnival-related questions...

English translation: 1. Rhenish Carnival; 2. Shrove Monday

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11:37 Jul 2, 2002
German to English translations [PRO]
Marketing
German term or phrase: Two carnival-related questions...
1) As far as the Rhineland "Fasching/Karneval" is concerned - does it make a difference to translate it as "carnival" or "mardi gras" or are the two expressions (in this case) synonymous?
2) What is "Rosenmontag" in (American) English - I found "the last monday before Lent" and "the day before Shrove Tuesday". Is there anything else? Which of the above sounds better to a native speaker?
Thanks and (a little early, I know) Helau!
Barbara Wiegel
Germany
Local time: 22:29
English translation:1. Rhenish Carnival; 2. Shrove Monday
Explanation:
In the U.S., any references to "mardi gras" refer to the celebration in Louisiana, particularly New Orleans; any other carnival, e.g. in the Carribean (Trinidad), Brazil (Rio), etc. is referred to as Carnival. A carnival (with a lower-case "c") is more commonly understood to be a fair such as Kirchweih or Kirmes.

Shrove Monday is understood as is Rose Monday, although the latter may require more explanation such as "Shove Monday, commonly known as Rose Monday to German carnivalers" ... By itself, an American would think of the Parade of Roses or the Rose Bowl, both non-carnival events.
Selected response from:

allemande
United States
Local time: 16:29
Grading comment
4 KudoZ points were awarded for this answer

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Summary of answers provided
3 +2Carnival; Rosenmontag plus explanation
Jack Doughty
4 +1shrovetide carnival
Chantal Henno
41. Rhenish Carnival; 2. Shrove Monday
allemande
4Shrove Monday
Jonathan MacKerron
4I would leave both words in German
Dr. Fred Thomson
4RosenmontagIngrid Grzeszik
4Carnival / Fasching and Rosenmontag
Martina Keskintepe


  

Answers


7 mins   confidence: Answerer confidence 3/5Answerer confidence 3/5 peer agreement (net): +2
Carnival; Rosenmontag plus explanation


Explanation:
1) Carnival is perfectly OK whether it's the Rhineland or Rio de Janeiro.

2) As far as I know there is no "Rose Monday" under that or any other name in the ecclesiastical calendar, so it would sound odd in English; I would put "Rosenmontag (the day before Shrove Tuesday)".

Jack Doughty
United Kingdom
Local time: 21:29
Native speaker of: Native in EnglishEnglish
PRO pts in pair: 214

Peer comments on this answer (and responses from the answerer)
agree  Nadders
2 mins

agree  gangels: In Chicago, it's Rose Monday (not Roses Monday) and Ash Wednesday
3 hrs
  -> We live & learn! So Rose Monday could be OK.

neutral  Bob Kerns: Rose Monday gets 1530 hits in Google, admittedly not all to do with the German carnival season. Alaaf!!
4 hrs
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10 mins   confidence: Answerer confidence 4/5Answerer confidence 4/5
Rosenmontag


Explanation:
Aschermittwoch


are the two important days of Rheinischer Karneval

Rosenmontag is the beginning day
Aschermittwoch is the end


Ingrid Grzeszik
Native speaker of: Native in GermanGerman
PRO pts in pair: 139

Peer comments on this answer (and responses from the answerer)
neutral  Martina Keskintepe: actally Karneval beginns on the Thursday before Rosenmontag, the Weiberfastnacht.
30 mins
  -> of course, Melek! ;-))

neutral  Bob Kerns: The carnival season actually starts on 11 November at 11 minutes after 11 AM
1 hr
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16 mins   confidence: Answerer confidence 4/5Answerer confidence 4/5 peer agreement (net): +1
shrovetide carnival


Explanation:
hi, I would suggest following translations as found in several dictionaries:
Fasching: Shrovetide carnival or Mardi Gras
Karneval: Carnival (more general)
Rosenmontag: Carnival monday or Shrove Monday.
(shrove seems to be more british so maybe the other translations would be best for your needs)
regards,
chanti

Chantal Henno
Local time: 22:29
Native speaker of: Native in DutchDutch
PRO pts in pair: 35

Peer comments on this answer (and responses from the answerer)
agree  modilingua: agree. would still go with "shrove"
5 mins
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42 mins   confidence: Answerer confidence 4/5Answerer confidence 4/5
I would leave both words in German


Explanation:
Karneval is associated with the Rhineland and Fasching with Bavaria.
In the States a carnival is something like a circus coming to town and not at all like Karneval.
Rosenmontag followed by one of the translation you have already come up with. Karneval, then let your text explain it.

Dr. Fred Thomson
United States
Local time: 14:29
Native speaker of: English
PRO pts in pair: 5861
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51 mins   confidence: Answerer confidence 4/5Answerer confidence 4/5
Carnival / Fasching and Rosenmontag


Explanation:
1. Carnival or 'Karneval' is usually used in the Rhein area, everywhere else it is Fasching in Germany. But the word Carnival is understood by all and I would not use Mardi Gras in this case. Of course, Mardi Gras is a Carnival as well but the way it is celebrated, is a bit different from the way it is celebrated in the Rheinland.
So far I have never heard anyone refer to the German 'Karneval' as Mardi Gras.
2. I would leave Rosenmontag as is. There is really no way to translate the term properly and capture the true spirit of the word.


Martina Keskintepe
Malta
Local time: 22:29
Native speaker of: Native in GermanGerman, Native in EnglishEnglish
PRO pts in pair: 153
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2 hrs   confidence: Answerer confidence 4/5Answerer confidence 4/5
Shrove Monday


Explanation:
According to the big Muret-Sanders, published 1990

--------------------------------------------------
Note added at 2002-07-02 14:13:20 (GMT)
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240 Yahoo hits related to carnival in many different countries

Jonathan MacKerron
Native speaker of: Native in EnglishEnglish
PRO pts in pair: 5577
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5 hrs   confidence: Answerer confidence 4/5Answerer confidence 4/5
1. Rhenish Carnival; 2. Shrove Monday


Explanation:
In the U.S., any references to "mardi gras" refer to the celebration in Louisiana, particularly New Orleans; any other carnival, e.g. in the Carribean (Trinidad), Brazil (Rio), etc. is referred to as Carnival. A carnival (with a lower-case "c") is more commonly understood to be a fair such as Kirchweih or Kirmes.

Shrove Monday is understood as is Rose Monday, although the latter may require more explanation such as "Shove Monday, commonly known as Rose Monday to German carnivalers" ... By itself, an American would think of the Parade of Roses or the Rose Bowl, both non-carnival events.

allemande
United States
Local time: 16:29
PRO pts in pair: 71
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