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Rattenbissnekrose

English translation: rat-bite necrosis

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GLOSSARY ENTRY (DERIVED FROM QUESTION BELOW)
German term or phrase:Rattenbissnekrose
English translation:rat-bite necrosis
Entered by: xxxsonja29
Options:
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13:45 May 22, 2005
German to English translations [PRO]
Medical - Medical (general)
German term or phrase: Rattenbissnekrose
Source: medical report

Diagnosis: Raynaud's syndrome

The patient suffered a stroke-like attack that caused a discoloration of several fingers in both hands and of the 3 lateral toes of the left foot.

Context: "Jedoch fallen stark schuppende Haende auf mit Verdickung der periungualen Haut, mehrere kleine Einrisse und als Rattenbissnekrosen imponierende Verkrustungen der betroffenen Finger".
GovLoki
rat-bite necrosis
Explanation:
http://www.dermis.net/acadermis/lectures/skleroderma/

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Note added at 10 mins (2005-05-22 13:56:28 GMT)
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http://dermatology.cdlib.org/DOJvol8num1/reviews/scleroderma...
Selected response from:

xxxsonja29
Grading comment
Graded automatically based on peer agreement.
4 KudoZ points were awarded for this answer

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Summary of answers provided
4 +4rat-bite necrosisxxxsonja29
4 +1(connective-) tissue necrosisSandy A Pirie
4pitting digital ulcersMMUlr
4rat-bite necrosis
Kim Metzger
4rat bite necrosis
Ker
1ischemic necrosis
Hilary Davies Shelby


  

Answers


9 mins   confidence: Answerer confidence 4/5Answerer confidence 4/5
rat bite necrosis


Explanation:
see: http://dermatology.cdlib.org/DOJvol8num1/reviews/scleroderma...

Ker
United Kingdom
Local time: 03:16
Specializes in field
Native speaker of: Native in EnglishEnglish
PRO pts in category: 7

Peer comments on this answer (and responses from the answerer)
neutral  MMUlr: Only two hits, written by German authors. I cannot believe in "rat bite" in this context (without any rats!) for systemic slerosis. It's a typical German description of small finger ulcers.)
33 mins

neutral  Hilary Davies Shelby: i think this might possibly mislead people into thinking a rat bite was actually involved - it doesn't seem to be a common term in English
6 hrs
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8 mins   confidence: Answerer confidence 4/5Answerer confidence 4/5 peer agreement (net): +4
rat-bite necrosis


Explanation:
http://www.dermis.net/acadermis/lectures/skleroderma/

--------------------------------------------------
Note added at 10 mins (2005-05-22 13:56:28 GMT)
--------------------------------------------------

http://dermatology.cdlib.org/DOJvol8num1/reviews/scleroderma...


xxxsonja29
Native speaker of: Native in EnglishEnglish
PRO pts in category: 4
Grading comment
Graded automatically based on peer agreement.

Peer comments on this answer (and responses from the answerer)
agree  Ker
1 min

agree  Kim Metzger
3 mins

agree  swisstell
6 mins

neutral  MMUlr: see above! these are texts from German authors.
34 mins

agree  Jonathan MacKerron: Real Lexikon der Medizin proffers "rat-bite" in association with Rattenbeissfieber/Narben/Krankheit
1 hr
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11 mins   confidence: Answerer confidence 4/5Answerer confidence 4/5
rat-bite necrosis


Explanation:
http://www.dermis.net/acadermis/lectures/skleroderma/

Kim Metzger
Mexico
Local time: 21:16
Native speaker of: Native in EnglishEnglish
PRO pts in category: 429

Peer comments on this answer (and responses from the answerer)
neutral  MMUlr: see my other comments. This is a translation of a phrase only IMO used by German authors.
33 mins
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19 mins   confidence: Answerer confidence 4/5Answerer confidence 4/5 peer agreement (net): +1
(connective-) tissue necrosis


Explanation:
I think it improbable that the patient has been bitten by a rat - the term 'Rattenbissnekrose' is used for particular forms of tissue damage.

eMedicine - Raynaud Phenomenon : Article by Jeffrey R. Lisse, MD, FACP
... Rarely, tissue necrosis occurs distal to the affected vessel. ... Mixed connective-tissue disease (and other overlap syndromes) ...
www.emedicine.com/med/topic1993.htm

Sandy A Pirie
Local time: 03:16
Native speaker of: Native in EnglishEnglish
PRO pts in category: 15

Peer comments on this answer (and responses from the answerer)
agree  MMUlr: yes, no rats at all. We have to look for a phrase such as "small ulcers of the fingertips" .. http://altmeyer.informatik.uni-wuerzburg.de/unprotected/fram... (image)
24 mins
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6 hrs   confidence: Answerer confidence 1/5Answerer confidence 1/5
ischemic necrosis


Explanation:
First of all, I am NOT a medical person of any sort! I am merely a persistent Googler ;-)

I've found several references to Raynaud's causing something called ischemic necrosis - this may or may not be what you are looking for.
I've also found a picture which seems to fit the description above. Be warned - this is not a particularly pleasant picture.
http://www-medlib.med.utah.edu/WebPath/COW/COW057.html


Hilary Davies Shelby
United States
Local time: 21:16
Native speaker of: English
PRO pts in category: 8

Peer comments on this answer (and responses from the answerer)
neutral  MMUlr: Rattenbissnekrosen are not shown in your picture; see my added sclero.org link showing exactly the lesions in question.//To make it clear: of course it is a necrosis, but not a Rattenbissnekrose. pls see added note.
9 hrs
  -> the black parts are the necrosis ;-)
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48 mins   confidence: Answerer confidence 4/5Answerer confidence 4/5
pitting digital ulcers


Explanation:
I think I could find original English texts on this specific necrosis of the fingertips:
http://www.google.de/search?as_q=raynaud digital ulcers fing...

"pitting digital ulcers" - pitting meaning in this case: "Lochfraß".

HTH :-)

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Note added at 59 mins (2005-05-22 14:45:20 GMT)
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One more ref. with images: http://www.sclero.org/medical/symptoms/skin/digital-ulcers.h...

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Note added at 1 hr 52 mins (2005-05-22 15:38:14 GMT)
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On Jonathan\'s comment on \"rat-bite fever\":

The fact that this term - for an infection caused a Streptobacillus species - does exist, is no reason at all to use \"rat bite\" for a special sign in Raynaud syndrome!

see as ref. http://www.scholar.google.com/scholar?hl=en&lr=&ie=ISO-8859-...

It has nothing to do with systemic connective diseases, systemic sclerosis or Raynaud syndrome.

I think ... as is always the case, when I try to figure out terms for technical questions (in fact, I studied among others technical terminology during my translator education at Mainz/Germersheim -- long ago!) that I make mistakes due to my lack of \"real\" knowledge in this field. Often other peers have to correct me (and I appreciate this very much).

So here as I have \"real\" medical knowledge, I believe it is necessary to indicate if someone follows the wrong track based on terms in dictionaries. Everyone of us here at Proz certainly knows about the pitfalls in using them ... :-))

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Note added at 20 hrs 54 mins (2005-05-23 10:40:30 GMT)
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Rattenbissnekrose is an initial stage of typical lesions in Raynaud disease / systemic sclerodermia; it is a rather \"blumige\" description of morphology, not a diagnosis, meaning that the appearance of the lesion resembles a bite defect by a small animal (such as a rat).

Googling (images) provides for the German part:
http://altmeyer.informatik.uni-wuerzburg.de/unprotected/fram...

Here the English counterpart - pls click on the first image:
http://groups.msn.com/Sclero/digitalulcers.msnw

In other text examples, I was able to find \"pitting\" - Lochfraß related to these digital ulcers (fingers or toes are possible localizations), and \"pitting\" IMO is the English way to describe \"rat-bite\" defects.

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Note added at 20 hrs 56 mins (2005-05-23 10:42:09 GMT)
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Medical literature on the subject showing a variety of phrases including pitting:
http://www.scholar.google.com/scholar?q=pitting ulcers finge...

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Note added at 20 hrs 58 mins (2005-05-23 10:43:47 GMT)
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sorry, localizations --> locations

MMUlr
Germany
Local time: 04:16
Specializes in field
Native speaker of: German
PRO pts in category: 845
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