English translation: no longer subject to external constraints/conventions
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07:52 Nov 10, 2010
German to English translations [PRO] Art/Literary - Music / more general expression
German term or phrase:selbst verpflichtet
"Die späten Cellosonaten als künstlerische Befreiungsschläge, rücksichtslos, nur mehr sich selbst verpflichtet, Ergebnis eines zum Teil schon waghalsigen Ausdruckswillens - so lässt sich diese Musik wohl deuten"
Refers to Beethoven's last two cello sonatas, and I really don't know what to do with "nur mehr sich selbst verpflichtet".
Explanation: I agree with Brigitte and Daniela that it is a sense of independence that is being expressed here. Until now, the composer has felt bound to comply with the expectations of others. With these works, on the other hand, he is finally liberating himself and breaking free from these constraints. The music is created "for its own sake", so to speak.
I have found a couple of examples that illustrate the use of this phrase quite nicely - one of them even about another composer!
"Robert Schumann hat die Musikwelt entscheidend geprägt und verändert, durch seine Werke, seine Schriften und seine Person, sein Künstlerdasein. Er hat konsequent versucht, sein Ideal vom unabhängigen Musiker, der nur sich selbst verpflichtet ist, zu leben. Nicht nur auf dem Papier. Kunst und Leben fallen bei Schumann zum ersten Mal in einer Weise zusammen, die für die musikalische Romantik Vorbild sein wird."
"Die Kommunistische Partei Chinas wurde von Mao 1921 gegründet, heißt es in China, und die angebliche Gründungsstätte in Schanghai gehört heute zu den Sehenswürdigkeiten für Touristen. In Wahrheit entstand die Partei bereits 1920, allerdings ohne Mao. Der sieht sich in jener Zeit noch um, welche politische Gruppe ihm beste Aussicht auf Karriere bietet. "Menschen wie ich sind nur sich selbst verpflichtet, wir haben keine Verpflichtung anderen gegenüber", notiert er."
Beethoven did not produce work 'merely for its own sake'. The system of patronage under which he worked meant that he worked on the basis of commissions. It was not until art salons were set up that artists were able to, at least theoretically, produce work for its own sake, ie, produce it for exhibition without reference to the wishes of a patron. In reality, of course, if they wanted to make a living they always had to have an eye on their potential audience. This was not available to Beethoven.
I am sorry but I have to argue against the meaning inferred by the suggestion chosen - albeit at too late a stage. Art for art's sake was a mid-19th century concept and, as such, completely unknown to Beethoven. What is meant here is that Beethoven had made advances or had a sufficient body of work behind him that he was able to refer to structure, internal 'rules', themes, or whatever, previously established in his work. His work could not be free of external constraints, no-one acts in a vacuum, without context. It means he was looking within his own oeuvre. By the late sonatas he was able to do so and not to be obliged, as he probably was as a young composer, to draw and expand on the work of others or existing structures.
for these very valuable suggestions, and a very interesting discussion. I found most of the ideas pretty close to teh german but suspect none of them really corresponds exactly. I finally agreed with Daniela that this is related to the l'art pour l'art concept, and with Colin's further development of this line of thought. Difficult to choose between them though!
Much as Nietzsche has gained in popularity during the last century, his poetry still has not received the scholarly attention it deserves. On closer scrutiny, his aposiopetic style, along with the labyrinthine and self-referential nature of his writings, subtly hint toward the recurring and parallel presence of poetry in his writings. http://www.nietzschecircle.com/index_newworks.html
It is often the case that art is referred to as self-referential - that is it takes its lead from its own concerns. I wonder whether this would work here.
I don't think I would ever call a human being self-contained, and indeed it might be somethign one could apply to a work of music - but it is a truism for practically all pieces of music worthy of the name.
It is not a question of the inclusion of the works, but rather that the works themselves are only "sich selbst verpflichtet". I think Brigitte might be on the right lines, while I don't really see how "self-imposed" can apply to the work itself.
I disagree with Brigitte's assessment. I see no reference to 'selbstständig' or similar.It simply means that the decision to include cello sonatas as a piece of artistic licence was an independent, self-imposed decision.
unrelated to his other music
I don't write about music so I don't know how to put this into suitables phrases but this is how I interpret the comment.
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Answers
50 mins confidence: peer agreement (net): +1
[merely created] for their own sake
Explanation: Was ich mir als Bedeutung vorstellen könnte:
Reine Selbstverpflichtung im Sinne von "l'art pour l'art" - die Cellosonaten haben keinen anderen Zweck als den Selbstzweck.
Daniela Bandic Germany Local time: 04:16 Native speaker of: German
1 hr confidence: peer agreement (net): +1
sich selbst verpflichtet
no longer subject to external constraints/conventions
Explanation: I agree with Brigitte and Daniela that it is a sense of independence that is being expressed here. Until now, the composer has felt bound to comply with the expectations of others. With these works, on the other hand, he is finally liberating himself and breaking free from these constraints. The music is created "for its own sake", so to speak.
I have found a couple of examples that illustrate the use of this phrase quite nicely - one of them even about another composer!
"Robert Schumann hat die Musikwelt entscheidend geprägt und verändert, durch seine Werke, seine Schriften und seine Person, sein Künstlerdasein. Er hat konsequent versucht, sein Ideal vom unabhängigen Musiker, der nur sich selbst verpflichtet ist, zu leben. Nicht nur auf dem Papier. Kunst und Leben fallen bei Schumann zum ersten Mal in einer Weise zusammen, die für die musikalische Romantik Vorbild sein wird."
"Die Kommunistische Partei Chinas wurde von Mao 1921 gegründet, heißt es in China, und die angebliche Gründungsstätte in Schanghai gehört heute zu den Sehenswürdigkeiten für Touristen. In Wahrheit entstand die Partei bereits 1920, allerdings ohne Mao. Der sieht sich in jener Zeit noch um, welche politische Gruppe ihm beste Aussicht auf Karriere bietet. "Menschen wie ich sind nur sich selbst verpflichtet, wir haben keine Verpflichtung anderen gegenüber", notiert er."
Explanation: Works whose only duty is to be answerable to themselves, i.e, not to be subject to other standards of rational criticism- self indulgent if you like,but in essence which cannot be subjected to conventional standards of judgement.
Explanation: Another option along Colin's line. This sort of fluff is hard to pin down, but I believe it refers to Beethoven moving down his own path as a composer; these sonatas are freer in form and structure than many others of their era.
FWIW, I know these pieces well as a professional cellist, and performed the last sonata in a recital many moons ago...
Joel Schaefer United States Specializes in field Native speaker of: English PRO pts in category: 8
The translation workplace 
peer agreement (net): +1
