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German: Sinnlichkeit & Sinn

English translation: sensuousness and sense







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GLOSSARY ENTRY (DERIVED FROM QUESTION BELOW)
German term or phrase:Sinnlichkeit & Sinn
English translation:sensuousness and sense
Entered by:Max Nuijens, MSc
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8:16am Apr 14, 2008Login or register (free) for more options.
German to English translations [PRO]
Social Sciences - Philosophy
German term or phrase: Sinnlichkeit & Sinn
"The principle of symbolic pregnance states that there is a primordial unity between ‘sensuousness’ (Sinnlichkeit) and ‘sense’ (Sinn) in the symbol that cannot be meaningfully separated into its constitutive parts."

How are Sinnlichhkeit and Sinn properly translated into English? Sensuousness seems wrong because of the sexual connotation. It is a thesis on the philosopy of Ernst Cassirer.
Max Nuijens, MSc
Belarus
Clarification request(s) and response
Craig Meulen: 8:25am Apr 14, 2008: I think in this context the words are fine - the sexual connotation is only one aspect of the word and obviously not the one that is appropriate here.
Max Nuijens, MSc: 8:45am Apr 14, 2008: But then what is the difference between sensibility and sensuousness? Perhaps I should look for a more technical approach like 'sensitory' to rid the translation from connotations that would sneak in if I would use something like 'sentitivity'. It it about human beings, but I have to have a factual and neutral word.
mill: 8:45am Apr 14, 2008: You're right, Craig, why don't you post this as an answer?
Craig Meulen: 8:48am Apr 14, 2008: There are writings in English about and from Cassirer, you should be able to find this core concept somewhere and see how others phrased it. Be very careful, because there is a very fine line here between "sense"=meaning and "sense"=the five senses.
Anne Schulz: 9:23am Apr 14, 2008: I don't know Cassirer's concepts - but "Sinnlichkeit" appears to include a strong physical appeal to the senses (not necessarily sexual), like the wind in your hair or a delicate taste in your mouth, which you would have to capture in your translation.
franglish: 9:37am Apr 14, 2008: [DOC] Aesthetic Autonomy and the Critique of Modernity:File Format: Microsoft Word - View as HTML
In the work of the artist content and form, reason and sensuousness, theory and practice, .... Ernst Cassirer, The Philosophy of the Enlightenment, trans. .
franglish: 9:43am Apr 14, 2008: The Philosophy of the Enlightenment - Google Books Resultby Ernst Cassirer - 1968 - Philosophy - 384 pages
... and the pure spontaneity which also dwells in the sensuous, in other words, ... and to achieve a new productive synthesis of "reason" and "sensibility. ...
books.google.ch/books?isbn=0691019630...


franglish: 9:49am Apr 14, 2008: "Sinn" here is rendered as "reason", "Sinnlichkeit as "sensousness", though the last, googling around, has frequently been translated as "sensuality".
Hilary Davies: 11:00am Apr 14, 2008: I was just wondering whether we should throw "sensuality" into the mix here! ;-) It DOES have more sexual connotations than "sensuousness" in my opinion.

sensuousness and sense
Explanation:
I would not use "Sensibility" here. it is something entirely different. it stands for Empfindlichkeit, Empfindsamkeit, Sensibilität, Zartgefühl.
Selected response from:

Ellen Kraus
Austria
Note from asker to answerer
Well, I decided to keep it as it is. This is also the way the author wants it - so, he gets it. Thanks for all your research!
4 KudoZ points were awarded for this answer



Summary of answers provided
4 +3sensuousness and senseEllen Kraus
4 +2sensuality and sense
CHRISTA MAYER-LOOS
3 +3sensory experience (quality) & (nonintuitive) meaning
Bernhard Sulzer
2 +1sensibility and sense EdithK


  


Answers

9 mins   confidence: Answerer confidence 2/5Answerer confidence 2/5 peer agreement (net): +1
sensibility and sense

Explanation:

not sure if it fits your context but this is the standard translation i.e. the German here is a translation from the Engish


Sensibility and Sense (1990) (TV) - Soundtracks- [ Diese Seite übersetzen ]Sensibility and Sense on IMDb: Movies, TV, Celebs, and more...
www.imdb.com/title/tt0100578/soundtrack -


Sinn und Sinnlichkeit (Sense and Sensiblity) / Austen, Jane im Ciao Preisvergleich unter Austen, Jane. Lesen Sie 4 Testberichte zu Sinn und Sinnlichkeit ...
www.ciao.de/Sinn_und_Sinnlichkeit_Sense_and_Sensiblity_Aust...


EdithK
Germany
Native speaker of: Native in GermanGerman, Native in EnglishEnglish

Peer comments on this answer (and responses from the answerer)
agree Stephen Sadie: although naturally better known the other way round as in the Jane Austen cited by Edith
2 mins

neutral Craig Meulen: "standard" translation? Surely your context is a bit different? In any case, sensibility is definitely something different to sensuousness. Let the asker choose which one is best for him!
5 mins
  -> Well, sense and sensibility is a novel by Jane Austen, translated into Sinn und Sinnlichkeit. That's why I posted with low CI. I personally do not like sensuousness for the reason given by asker but let the peers decide.

neutral xxxCMJ_Trans: This one crossed my mind at once (as in JA) for the same reasons as EdithK but I had and still have doubts
12 mins

neutral Jim Tucker: not here; these are not Austen's themes, but a philosophical topos
10 hrs
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27 mins   confidence: Answerer confidence 4/5Answerer confidence 4/5 peer agreement (net): +3
sensuousness and sense

Explanation:
I would not use "Sensibility" here. it is something entirely different. it stands for Empfindlichkeit, Empfindsamkeit, Sensibilität, Zartgefühl.

Ellen Kraus
Austria
Native speaker of: Native in GermanGerman
PRO pts in category: 4
Note from asker to answerer
Well, I decided to keep it as it is. This is also the way the author wants it - so, he gets it. Thanks for all your research!

Peer comments on this answer (and responses from the answerer)
agree mill
2 mins

agree Craig Meulen: thank you for confirming what I thought :-)
4 mins

neutral EdithK: Craig Meulen said that already in his note to asker so why post then, let Craig post this.
6 mins

agree mary austria: I agree all the way!!
9 mins

neutral Jim Tucker: "sensuality" is more precise here, as the meaning is not necessarily erotic, merely literally "sinnlich"
10 hrs
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1 hr   confidence: Answerer confidence 3/5Answerer confidence 3/5 peer agreement (net): +3
sensory experience (quality) & (nonintuitive) meaning

Explanation:
closer to the explanation below.
"sensuousness is also okay in my view, but "Sinn" is clearly "meaning" here.

or: is a sensory experience which at the same time contains a certain nonintuitive meaning

http://www.yale.edu/yup/pdf/081146_front_1.pdf

Cassirer, Phenomenology of Knowledge, p. ...: “It is with a view to expressing this mutual determination that we introduce the concept and term ‘symbolic pregnance.
’ By symbolic pregnance we mean the way in which a perception as a sensory experience contains at the same time a certain nonintuitive meaning which it immediately and concretely represents.”

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Note added at 2 hrs (2008-04-14 10:32:06 GMT)
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One could argue that "reason" is meant with "sense" here but I would be careful. Mental articulation is closer to it (IMO).

Here is an attempt (only) to explain a little more based on the information below.

"Meaning" here seems to describe a representational, condensed, abstract "form/version" of the "sensory experience" or what is experienced through the senses. The sensory experience is expressed in/transformed into (and this actually happens at the same time as the sensory experience) a meaningful and new, concise form/in non-representational form (symbolic form); it is a mental articulation of the sensory experience. The sensory experience determines how this articulation occurs, and the specific form/way of articulation (articulating) expresses the experience; these two are interconnected. This process of sensory experience and mental articulation is what cannot be separated. It is described as pregnance.

http://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ernst_Cassirer

„Unter ,symbolischer Prägnanz' soll also die Art verstanden werden in der ein Wahrnehmungserlebnis, als ,sinnliches' Erlebnis, zugleich einen bestimmten nicht-anschaulichen ,Sinn' in sich faßt und ihn zur unmittelbaren konkreten Darstellung bringt.“

Die symbolische Prägnanz lässt sich prozessual beschreiben als eine immanente Gliederung im Akt der Wahrnehmung und eine anschließende Repräsentation. So bilden sich im Sehen und für das Sehen die Gestalten aus. Die immanente Gliederung des sinnlichen Gehalts ist Voraussetzung dafür, dass die Welt nicht als amorphe Masse begegnet: durch Verdichtung und Herauslösung bilden sich Formen, Gestalten, Kontraste, welche durch Fixierung zu einer Identität (gegenüber anderen Wahrnehmungsinhalten) gelangen. Damit diese aber zu einer Dauerhaftigkeit kommen und sich „aus dem Strom des Bewusstseins bestimmte gleichbleibende Grundgestalten teils begrifflicher, teils rein anschaulicher Natur“ herausheben, braucht es eine anschließende Repräsentation. Damit tritt dann „an die Stelle des fließenden Inhalts [...] eine in sich geschlossene und in sich beharrende Form.“[4] Dabei wird nicht ein beliebiger Sinn zum Wahrnehmungsinhalt hinzuaddiert, sondern das Wahrgenommene wird in ein Sinnganzes eingebettet weil es eine Form gewinnt, die über sich hinaus weist:

Vielmehr ist es die Wahrnehmung selbst, die kraft ihrer eigenen immanenten Gliederung eine Art von geistiger ,Artikulation' gewinnt [...] Diese ideelle Verwobenheit, diese Bezogenheit des einzelnen, hier und jetzt gegebenen Wahrnehmungsphänomens, soll der Ausdruck ,Prägnanz' bezeichnen.



Bernhard Sulzer
United States
Works in field
Native speaker of: Native in GermanGerman
PRO pts in category: 16

Peer comments on this answer (and responses from the answerer)
agree Craig Meulen: THANK YOU Bernhard!! Now we're getting somewhere ...
7 mins
  -> thanks, Craig!

agree franglish
4 hrs
  -> thank you!

agree gangels: wholeheartedly agree. Als:'constituent parts', not constitutive
5 hrs
  -> thank you!
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5 hrs   confidence: Answerer confidence 4/5Answerer confidence 4/5 peer agreement (net): +2
sensuality and sense

Explanation:
sensuality: gratification of the senses, self-indulgence, eroticism

CHRISTA MAYER-LOOS
Brazil
Native speaker of: Native in GermanGerman

Peer comments on this answer (and responses from the answerer)
agree Jim Tucker: right answer, though for the wrong reasons; "sensuality" does not necessarily connote eroticism. // yes, I was responding to your definition, which of course is not what the asker is looking for; your answer is, though.
5 hrs
  -> Thanks Jim! Eroticism is only one of the connotations, also regarding the German sense of the word.

agree babli: agree
17 hrs
  -> Thank you Babli!
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