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Bürgersöhne

English translation: s.u.


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GLOSSARY ENTRY (DERIVED FROM QUESTION BELOW)
German term or phrase:Bürgersöhne
English translation:s.u.
Entered by: Tegan Raleigh
Options:
- Contribute to this entry
- Include in personal glossary

02:17 Oct 11, 2005
German to English translations [PRO]
Art/Literary - Poetry & Literature
German term or phrase: Bürgersöhne
Lodge und Nash waren- wie Shakespeare- Handwerker- und Buergersoehne

"Buerger" seems to have so many translations that I'm not sure what to decide on here.
Tegan Raleigh
United States
Local time: 05:16
s.u.
Explanation:
Were the sons of prosperous craftsmen

I don't think the word 'Bürger' can be translated here in a way that fits both sixteenth and twentieth century contexts. Middle class is too modern and burgher too archaic.

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Note added at 7 hrs 38 mins (2005-10-11 09:55:32 GMT)
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In Shakespeare's day the idea of a 'middle' class between wealthy elite and working class had not yet emerged. The division of society in 16th Cenrury England was based more on a two-way division between commoner and nobility. The professional, artisan and merchant class was only emerging as a separate entity. At the earliest in the mid 18th century can we speak of a distinct 'middle class'.
Selected response from:

Stephen Roche
Local time: 14:16
Grading comment
Thanks very much, your reference was very informative!
4 KudoZ points were awarded for this answer



Summary of answers provided
4 +2burgher's sonsTeresa Reinhardt
3 +2s.u.
Stephen Roche
4sons of middle class parents (citizens)
Kim Metzger
2 +1(from) an artisan background / well-to-do familiesxxxFrancis Lee


  

Answers


4 mins   confidence: Answerer confidence 4/5Answerer confidence 4/5
Buergersoehne
sons of middle class parents (citizens)


Explanation:
I think that would work here.

Kim Metzger
Mexico
Local time: 07:16
Specializes in field
Native speaker of: Native in EnglishEnglish
PRO pts in category: 201

Peer comments on this answer (and responses from the answerer)
neutral  Stephen Roche: Not so sure Shakespeare can be described as middle class//Depends a lot on the register of the piece. For a more educated readership middle class may appear anachronistic
6 hrs

agree  xxxFrancis Lee: I'm sure he could be; http://www.42explore.com/shakspear.htm
6 hrs

disagree  xxxlucasm: With Stephen--middle-class is definitely anachronistic.
12 hrs
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42 mins   confidence: Answerer confidence 4/5Answerer confidence 4/5 peer agreement (net): +2
Bürgersöhne
burgher's sons


Explanation:
A familair term for educated (academic) Americans

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Note added at 1 hr 57 mins (2005-10-11 04:14:55 GMT)
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or burghers' sons


    Reference: http://www.bartleby.com/61/91/B0559100.html
    Reference: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Burgher
Teresa Reinhardt
United States
Local time: 05:16
Native speaker of: Native in GermanGerman, Native in EnglishEnglish
PRO pts in category: 12

Peer comments on this answer (and responses from the answerer)
agree  Stephen Sadie
1 hr
  -> Thanks, Stephen!

agree  Walter Köppe
4 hrs
  -> Thanks, Walter!

neutral  Stephen Roche: For Shakespeare, yes, for Nash and Lodge (presumablly Ogden and David) no
5 hrs

neutral  xxxFrancis Lee: as Stephen says, perhaps a litle archaic; familiar only to those Americans, I think, who have studied European history - which, let's face it, isn't that high a proportion ;-)
6 hrs
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6 hrs   confidence: Answerer confidence 3/5Answerer confidence 3/5 peer agreement (net): +2
Bürgersöhne
s.u.


Explanation:
Were the sons of prosperous craftsmen

I don't think the word 'Bürger' can be translated here in a way that fits both sixteenth and twentieth century contexts. Middle class is too modern and burgher too archaic.

--------------------------------------------------
Note added at 7 hrs 38 mins (2005-10-11 09:55:32 GMT)
--------------------------------------------------

In Shakespeare's day the idea of a 'middle' class between wealthy elite and working class had not yet emerged. The division of society in 16th Cenrury England was based more on a two-way division between commoner and nobility. The professional, artisan and merchant class was only emerging as a separate entity. At the earliest in the mid 18th century can we speak of a distinct 'middle class'.

Stephen Roche
Local time: 14:16
Works in field
Native speaker of: Native in EnglishEnglish
PRO pts in category: 22
Grading comment
Thanks very much, your reference was very informative!

Peer comments on this answer (and responses from the answerer)
agree  Kieran McCann: excellent analysis
2 hrs

agree  Rebecca Garber: excellent explanation
4 hrs

agree  Andrew Swift
10 hrs

disagree  xxxFrancis Lee: the German could be misleading; Ogden (!) came from a wealthy/middle-class family, Nash's father was a musician; NEITHER were "sons of prosperous craftsmen"
1 day8 hrs
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6 hrs   confidence: Answerer confidence 2/5Answerer confidence 2/5 peer agreement (net): +1
Bürgersöhne
(from) an artisan background / well-to-do families


Explanation:
although simply "middle-class" would indeed suffice, I think

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Note added at 1 day 15 hrs 34 mins (2005-10-12 17:51:54 GMT) Post-grading
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Well, seems like the German is inaccurate anyway; should read e.g. Künstler- bzw. Bürgersöhne ...

xxxFrancis Lee
Local time: 14:16
Works in field
Native speaker of: Native in EnglishEnglish
PRO pts in category: 80

Peer comments on this answer (and responses from the answerer)
agree  Kieran McCann
2 hrs
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Changes made by editors
Oct 11, 2005 - Changes made by Marcus Malabad:
Term askedBrgersoehne => Brgershne
Oct 11, 2005 - Changes made by Marcus Malabad:
Term askedBuergersoehne => Brgersoehne


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