|Greek to English translations [Non-PRO]|
|Greek term or phrase: ΛΩΤΟΣ|
Apart from the obvious meaning of lotus, I seem to remember a greengrocer in Greece using this word for a persimmon. Can it in fact mean persimmon; is it used for anything apart from the lotus flower?
|Local time: 00:35|
Note added at 2003-11-13 09:40:53 (GMT)
See this link for persimmon http://www.hort.purdue.edu/ext/senior/fruits/persimmon1.htm
(it has a picture) and I AM 100% SURE that this is called \"lotus\" in Greek!
Note added at 2003-11-13 10:18:02 (GMT)
FROM THE OED:
lotus (_______). (Also lotos 7 erron. lutes.) Pl. lotuses.
[a. L. lotus, Gr. _____, the name of several dissimilar plants; it is not known whether the word in the various applications is etymologically identical; in sense 3 Herodotus speaks of it as Egyptian.]
1. The plant yielding the fruit which was the food of the Lotophagi of Greek legend; represented by Homer (Od. ix. 90 ff.) as producing in those who ate it a state of dreamy forgetfulness, and loss of all desire to return home. Hence often allusively.
The Homeric lotus was identified by later Gr. writers with a North African shrub, the descriptions of which are thought by most naturalists to refer to the jujube-tree (Zizyphus Lotus), though other identifications have been proposed.
1540_41 Elyot Image Gov. 39 Whan the Companions and seruantes of Ulisses had eaten abundantly of the herbe called Lotos.
1591 Spenser Virg. Gnat 193 And them amongst the wicked Lotos grew, Wicked for holding guilefully away Vlysses men.
_1600 T. Deloney Thomas of Reading (1632) G j b, Then would I be like those men (that eating of the tree Lutes) forget the Country where they were borne.
1628 Sir R. Le Grys tr. Barclay\'s Argenis 182 What Lotos in Africa doth hinder thy returne hither?
1725 Pope Odyss. ix. 106 Lotos, the name; divine, nectarious juice!
1773 Johnson Journ. West. Isl. Wks. X. 400 At Dunvegan I had tasted lotus and was in danger of forgetting that I was ever to depart.
1832 Tennyson Lotos-Eaters 105 Eating the Lotos day by day.
1900 Contemp. Rev. July 57 If it had all been Yalta, I could have eaten of the lotus for many a day, but Sebastopol is grim and grey [etc.].
2. A tree mentioned by ancient writers, distinguished by its hard, black wood, of which statues, flutes, etc. were carved; prob. the nettle-tree, Celtis australis. Also, the date-plum, Diospyros Lotus.
1551 Turner Herbal i. H vj b, Affryca_bryngeth furth an excellent tree called lotus,_the wood hath a black color and is myche desyred of men for to make pypes.
1669 Worlidge Syst. Agric. (1681) 99 The Larch and Lotus_deserve to be propagated for their rarity, excellent Shade, and durable Timber.
1760 J. Lee Introd. Bot. App. 317 Lotus or Lote-tree, Celtis.
Ibid., Lotus, supposed, of Homer, Diospyros.
3. a. The water-lily of Egypt and Asia, Nymphζa Lotus (and other species), and Nelumbium speciosum.
b. Arch. An ornament representing the Egyptian water-lily: cf. lotus blossom, etc. in 6.
1584 Rich tr. Herodotus ii. 92 b, In time of the floude_there arise in the water great plenty of lyllyes, which the people of Ζgypt call Lotos.
1601 Holland Pliny I. 397 The Ζgyptian Lotus_groweth in the marishes of Ζgypt.
1785 Wilkins Bhagvat v. 45 The leaf of the lotus.
1859 Tennent Ceylon I. i. iii. 123 The chief ornaments of these neglected sheets of water are the large red and white Lotus.
1877 Longfellow Kιramos 286 The grand Osiris holding in his hand the lotus.
1883 H. W. V. Stuart Egypt 204 The blue and pink lotus of India.
1900 Max Mόller in 19th Cent. Nov. 732 After death the souls enter into the calyx of a lotus.
c. The plant treated symbolically in Hindu and Buddhist thought; also, in Yogic exercises, a bodily position said to resemble the lotus blossom. Cf. lotus gospel, pose, etc. in 6.
1848 J. D. Hooker Himalayan Jrnls. Nov. (1854) I. x. 229 Low stone dykes, into which were let rows of stone slabs, inscribed with the sacred _Om Mani Padmi om\'.---_Hail to him of the lotus and jewel.\'
1887 E. Arnold (title) Lotus and jewel, containing _In an Indian temple\', _A casket of gems\'_with other poems.
1949 S. Muzumdar Yogic Exercises 103 There are insuperable impediments because of which many will fail to master the Lotus.
1973 R. Rendell Some lie & some Die xviii. 183 Vedast_had taken up a Yoga position, a half-Lotus, on the floor.
4. Some kind of clover or trefoil (referred to by Homer as food for horses). _ wild lotus, perh. Melilotus officinalis.
1562 Turner Herbal ii. 42 a, Lotus syluestris that is called wylde lotus, which som call ye less trifoli, groweth in Libia.
_1611 Chapman Iliad xiv. 294 With his leaves did dewy lotus store Th\' Elysian mountain.
1682 Wheler Journ. Greece i. 3 Yellow Flowers_like those of wild Lotus.
1709 Addison Tatler No. 147 _4 While the Earth beneath them sprung up in Lotus\'s, Saffrons, Hyacinths [etc.].
1820 Shelley Hymn to Mercury xvii. 6 When with rush-grass tall, Lotus and all sweet herbage, every one Had pastured been.
1842 Tennyson _none 96 And at their feet the crocus brake like fire, Violet, amaracus and asphodel, Lotos and lilies.
5. Adopted by botanists as the name of a genus of leguminous plants; hence in popular language spec. the Bird\'s-foot Trefoil, Lotus corniculatus.
persimmon (___________). Forms: 7 putchamin, pessemmin, posimon, 8 pitchumon, pishamin, phishimon, porsimmon, 8_9 persimon, 9 -siman, -simmen, 8_ persimmon.
[Corruption of the native name in the Powhatan dialect (Algonquian of Virginia). The exact form of the first element is uncertain; the second is the suffix -min, common to many names of grains or small fruits in Algonquian dialects: cf. mondamin, shahbomin, in Longfellow\'s _Hiawatha\'. The stress was orig. not on the second syllable, persi_min or _persimin being earlier than per_simmon.]
1. The plum-like fruit of the tree Diospyros virginiana; the American Date-plum, of yellowish orange colour, an inch or more in diameter, with from six to eight stony seeds; it is very astringent even when ripe, but becomes sweet and edible when softened by frost. Also, The large red fruit of the Chinese and Japanese species D. Kaki.
1612 Capt. Smith Map Virginia 12 The fruit like medlers; they call Putchamins, they cast vppon hurdles on a mat, and preserue them as Pruines.
1612 W. Strachey Trav. Virginia x. (Hakl. Soc.) 119 They have a plomb which they call pessemmins, like to a medler, in England, but of a deeper tawnie cullour.
1670 D. Denton Descr. New York (1845) 3 The Fruits natural to the Island are Mulberries, Posimons,_Huckelberries.
1705 Beverley Hist. Virginia ii. iv. (1722) 112 Of stoned Fruits, I have met with three good Sorts, viz. Cherries, Plums, and Persimmons.
1731 Catesby Nat. Hist. Carolina I. p. x, Phishimons, whorts, and some other fruit.
1760 J. Lee Introd. Bot. App. 322_3 Persimon Plum,_Pishamin Plum, Diospyros.
1785 J. Belknap in M. Cutler\'s Life, etc. (1888) II. 235, I enclose you the seeds of the Persimmon, a fruit natural to Pennsylvania.
1859 All Year Round No. 1. 17 The [Chinese] persiman is like a large egg-plum, but containing half a dozen stones.
1863 Alcock Capital Tycoon I. 323 Apples, pears, plums, peaches, chestnuts, persimmons, oranges,_all are here.
1887 Century Mag. Oct. 859/2 Away! Away!_to where the purple and golden persimmons hang low from the boughs.
2. (More fully persimmon-tree.) The tree Diospyros virginiana (N.O. Ebenaceζ); a native of North America, which produces the fruit described in 1, and yields a fine hard wood valuable for turning. Also applied to other species, as Black or Mexican P., D. Texana, which has a small black insipid fruit, and Japanese P., D. Kaki.
1737 Wesley Wks. (1872) I. 62 In the moistest part of this land some porsimmon-trees grow.
1788 Rees Chambers\' Cycl., Plum, Indian date, pishamin, persimon, or pitchumon, diospyros,_a genus of the polygamia dioecia class.
1876 Bancroft Hist. U.S. I. ii. 47 They brought_loaves made of the fruit of the persimmon.
1882 Garden 7 Jan. 1/2 There are_fruiting Japan Persimmons, American Persimmons.
3. In various phrases. U.S. colloq. and slang. to be a huckleberry to (or over) someone\'s persimmon: see huckleberry 4.
1827 De Quincey Murder Wks. 1854 IV. 50 Why or with what view, it passes my persimmon to tell you.
1841 Spirit of Times 18 Dec. 499 They had not forgotten that the game little mare had put Sarah up to 7:45_7:40, in March last, and it seemed as if it was now their turn to _shake down the persimmons\'.
1844 in Sperber & Trittschuh Amer. Pol. Terms (1962) 313/2 David Tod should go there and repeat that original remark of his about the longest pole knocking down the persimmons.
1845 Knickerbocker XXV. 425 Wall now, that are\'s a jump above my tallest persimmons.
1857 Call (San Francisco) 3 Apr. 4/2 He will deal himself four aces and his opponent four queens, so that your honor will perceive he must _rake the persimmons\'.
1861 in W. H. Russell My Diary North & South (1863) II. iii. 62 Let both parties meet where there will be no interruption at the scalping business, and the longest pole will knock the persimmon.
1889 Farmer Americanisms s.v., _To rake up the persimmons.\'---To pocket the stakes or spoils.
Ibid., _The persimmon above one\'s huckleberry\',_an avowal of disbelief in one\'s ability to perform_a given task or undertaking.
1896 Daily News 5 June 5/3 There is_in the Southern States, a proverb__The longest pole knocks the persimmon\', i.e. success falls to him who has the most advantages.
1900 F. P. Dunne Mr. Dooley\'s Philos. 68 _I\'ll jus\' move me music back a mile,\' he says, _an\' peg away, an\' th\' longest gun takes th\' persimmons,\' he says.
1901_2 Farmer & Henley Slang s.v., That\'s persimmon (or all persimmon) = _That\'s fine\'.
1903 Cutcliffe Hyne McTodd 40 No use taking four bites at a persimmon.
1946 California Folklore Q. July 240 That\'s the ripe persimmon. That is just right, or taken at the best moment.
a. The colour of persimmon fruit, yellow to red-orange.
b. The colour of persimmon wood, reddish brown. Also attrib. and Comb.
1928 S. V. Benιt John Brown\'s Body 150 Grievin\' yaller gals always does all right. Next time I\'se gwine to git me a coal-black gal. I\'se tired of persimmon-skins.
1975 Vogue Dec. 103 Persimmon lipstick.
1977 Time 27 June 50/1 The thickly painted figures with features eroded by light, the sharp eupeptic color---emerald, persimmon, rust, ultramarine.
1977 New Yorker 10 Oct. 132/2 They looked forward eagerly to sporting their persimmon outfit, say, in the first round of the club championship.
5. attrib., as persimmon-beer, -bush, -wood.
1737 J. Brickell Nat. Hist. N. Carolina 38 The following are made in the Country, viz. Cyder, Persimon-Beer, made of the Fruit of that Tree, [etc.].
1860 Bartlett Dict. Amer. (ed. 3), Persimmon Beer, a kind of domestic beer whose principal ingredient is persimmons.
_1941 P. B. Barringer Natural Bent (1949) xxvi. 189 In the early seventies alcohol was everywhere in the South, and cut glass decanters stood on every sideboard._ Beer was just coming, unless we except _persimmon beer\' and _locust beer\' made on every plantation and in many village homes.
1950 Publ. Amer. Dial. Soc. xiv. 51 Persimmon beer, a beverage made from ripe persimmons.
1643 Virginia Stat. (1823) I. 250 Skowen\'s damms and Persimon Ponds.
1892 Joseph Gardner & Sons\' Monthly Circular 1 Oct., Persimmon Wood, _3 to _3 10s. per ton.
1786 G. Washington Diary 8 Aug. (1925) III. 102 A parcel of small Persimon bushes.
1944 G. Wilson Passing Institutions 177 Many an upland field not good for cultivation formerly had its flock of sheep, browsing among the sassafras and persimmon bushes.
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Local time: 02:35
|many thanks for such a thorough, excellent answer!|
4 KudoZ points were awarded for this answer
5 mins confidence: peer agreement (net): +1
Note added at 2003-11-13 09:37:43 (GMT)
persimmon = διοσπυρος