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08:25 Jan 27, 2012
This question was closed without grading. Reason: Other
Hungarian to English translations [PRO] Medical - Medical: Health Care / Anamnesis
Hungarian term or phrase:[betegség] jegyei
Dear forum,
What does 'jegy' mean in the following context:
Nehezitett koop. keszseg, hatterben nagy valoszinuseggel toxicus encephalopathia jegyei.
I would normally think 'signs of TE', but if 'hatterben' means 'it is caused by', then how can you say 'cooperation skills limited because of signs of TE'?
That's why linguistics and dictionaries are not enough for medical translation. You have to know what betegségjegyek means. They are signs. That's why I tried to explain at the very first place with the medicinenet.com quote: What is difference between signs and symptoms? Betegségjegyek (signs) are objective evidences. The physician saw the betegségjegyek (ismertetőjelek) of the disease. It is not subjective. They can be seen. Meanwhile symptoms are subjective, because the patient says it. Do you understand it now why they are signs? The physician saw the signs of toxic encephalopathy and not the characteristics. Every field has its own language. Just as medical language. That's why I wrote that this what in the official English medical language they are using (learn at the universities and then use in practice): Signs and symptoms of a disease.
Also I don't know how the examples in 2/2 can be connected with this topic. Half of them are architecture related. The other half has nothing to do with betegségjegy.
Tanner-féle fejlődési táblázatok: A testi fejlődés különböző jegyeinek (...) alakulását (...) tartalmazó táblázatok.
androgínia: Hímnősség: mindkét nem jegyeit magán hordozó jelleg.
antropológia/Embertan: tudomány, mely a különféle emberfajtákat vizsgálja, hasonlítja össze és rendszerezi testi jegyeik alapján...
carcinoma: ...A c.-kat szövettani sajátosságaik, nevezetesen invazivitásuk és anaplasticus jegyeik (...) alapján osztályozzák...
etnikum: Nép, népcsoport. Egy néphez való tartozás sajátosságai, jegyei.
experimentőr effektus: A kísérletező viselkedésének, személyiségi jegyeinek, (...) befolyása saját kutatási eredményeire.
gótika: ...legjellemzőbb formai jegyei az építészetben a csúcsív, a függőlegesen megnyújtott méretek...
ikon: ...Az ikonfestészet napjainkig szinte érintetlenül őrzi az ősi bizánci művészet jegyeit... karakterizál: Jellemez. Valaminek a jellegzetes tartozéka. "A gótikus stílust főképp a csúcsíves formák karakterizálták". Irodalmi mű alakját jellemzi, egyedi jegyeit megrajzolja. "Sokoldalúan karakterizálja regénye figuráit".
(there's more)
The term in question is the Hungarian word JEGYEI (- jegyek - jegy). The following examples are from the Magyar értelmező szótár. Everyone can decide for themselves if these occurrences should be interpreted as "signs" (jelek) or "characteristics"/"features" (jegyek/jellemzők/sajátosságok).
Ildiko wrote: "as a result of the underlying toxic encephalopathy signs" - "signs" only *indicate* (signal) a disorder but they do not *result* in a disorder. 'Háttérben' doesn't necessarily mean 'it is caused by'. I also believe that JEGY is not the same as JEL.
We have to understand the medical meaning behind the sentences, only then we can translate a medical sentence.
"Nehezített koop. készség, háttérben nagy valószinűséggel toxicus encephalopathia jegyei" means that it is very likely that toxicus encephalopathia is in the background, because the physician saw the signs of toxicus encephalopathia. So this means that it is very likely that in the background of the nehezített koop. készség there is an underlying disease that is toxicus encephalopathia. The physician saw the signs of encephalopathia. The phrase nagy valószínűséggel refers to "ennek hátterében" and it does not refer to "encephalopathia jegyei".
That's why we have to know what we are translating about.
Az elváltozás hátterében nem volt azonosítható sem értorzképződmény, sem daganat, és nem voltak fellelhetõk infekciózus eredetű parenchyma-pusztulásra utaló jelek sem.
No evidence was found of an underlying vascular malformation or tumor, nor was there evidence of parenchymal necrosis of infectious origin.
In the phrase betegségjegy the word "jegy"is translated as signs, see the references below. A disease can have signs (jegyei) and tünetei (symptoms).
Watch for these signs and symptoms if you think you or someone else may be having a stroke. Note when signs and symptoms begin, because the length of time they have been present may guide treatment decision
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Answers
28 mins confidence: peer agreement (net): -1
signs of the [disease] / [disease] signs
Explanation: Concerning the other question. We have a nice phrase for this: háttérbetegség. Underlying disease. So it would be:
Limited cooperation skills, very likely as a result of the underlying toxic encephalopathy signs.
Katalin Szilárd Hungary Local time: 23:02 Works in field Native speaker of: Hungarian PRO pts in category: 227
Explanation: I believe there is a difference, both in the medical and linguistic sense, between JEGYEK (characteristics, marks) and JELEK (signs). "Jegyek" characterize , while "jelek" indicate (i.e. sign, signal) something. See also: "klinikai jegyek" = "clinical characteristics" (or "klinikai jellemzők" = "clinical features") in various medical dictionaries and journals. One example:
"súlyos periodikus lábmozgás alvásban zavart provokált hasonló klinikai jegyek mellett" - "Clinical characteristics and frequency of the hereditary restless legs syndrome in population of 300 patients" http://www.lam.hu/folyoiratok/szemle/0503/1.htm
-------------------------------------------------- Note added at 10 hrs (2012-01-27 18:40:57 GMT) --------------------------------------------------
Dear Asker, as for your suggestion above, "if 'hatterben' means 'it is caused by'" / I don't believe this is what they meant. "hatterben nagy valoszinuseggel toxicus encephalopathia jegyei" in my opinion means that if they were to look further, they would most likely find characteristics of toxic encephalopathy. It definitely does not mean that these characteristics are the cause of any disorder. I also maintain that "jegy" is not to be confused with "jel". Other examples of klinikai jegyek / clinical characteristics:
"The purpose of the study is to learn more about the genetics and clinical characteristics of this disorder." http://clinicaltrials.gov/ct2/show/NCT00078091
or here, http://hivinsite.ucsf.edu/InSite?page=kb-06-02-03 http://www.biomedcentral.com/1471-2377/11/143
Also, here we can see that "jegyek" (characteristics) is also applied to describe an individual, as well as his reactions and circumstances, which cannot be said about "sings" or "symptoms". See the last sentence: "az egyén és a betegsége jegyeinek" - if we used "signs" for "jegyek", then we'd get "signs of an individual" which would make no sense... I firmly believe that the meaning of "jegyek" is very close to that of "jellemzők":
"A beteg megfigyelésére és az orvosi tapasztalatra épül.
Nem korlátozódik csupán a betegség jegyeire, hanem figyelembe veszi a klinikai megfigyelés során észlelt tünetek összességét, beleértve: a beteg egyéni reakcióit, valamint azokat a jegyeket is, ami a beteg életkörülményeinek a - betegségén kívüli - jellemzői.
Tehát a klinikai homeopátia az egyén és a betegsége jegyeinek minden részletére kiterjedő megfigyelésén alapul." http://www.cedh.hu/
Ildiko Santana United States Local time: 14:02 Works in field Native speaker of: Hungarian, English PRO pts in category: 32
The translation workplace 
