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22:27 Jan 20, 2012
Italian to English translations [PRO] Art/Literary - Architecture / Book on design in architecture
Italian term or phrase:di rimpiatto
I'm lost on this one. I have the excruciating feeling that I know the meaning, but... "di rimpiatto" Googles very little and "rimpiatto" isn't even in the dictionary. I do not think it means that linings in contemporary building play hide and seek with the ornament of the Academy (by the Academy I think he means 17th and 18th architecture of the French Academy of Sciences). What would tend to make some sense is "linings in contemporary building are some sort of reflection of the ornament of the Academy" All help welcome, the more informed the better, obviously.
"Se si può convenire che le tecniche di costruzione del cemento armato hanno spinto Le Corbusier verso una concezione scultorea dell'architettura parimenti si deve allora riconoscere come il diffuso impiego di componenti montati a secco per realizzare involucri di facciata appesi ed epidermici induca una concezione epidermica dell'architettura, quasi calligrafica, tanto da far sì che il rivestimento nell'edilizia contemporanea giochi *di rimpiatto* con l'ornamento dell'Accademia (30)."
Hi Arrigo. Nobody I spoke to gave me any "certain" answer on this one. The author's colleague said "hidden". which is what I went for. It does fit the context, but not obviously. 4 KudoZ points were awarded for this answer
It seems that this is Pisa dialect. I asked a friend from Pisa. He said he thought "hide and seek" like rimpiattino, but wasn't sure. I don't have access to the author, but only to a colleague, who said "di nascosto", but obviously didn't know for certain. When I asked for elucidation on "Accademia" I was given (other translors, not as thorough as you have used "Academy"). When pushed for the precise meaning: maybe "Accademia del Ornato". I translated with "plays covertly with the "Academy".
Mine too, the comparsion is with Baroque architecture and comtemporary designer architecture. What I really want here is a native Italian viewpoint on what "di rimpiatto" a colloquial expression means.
I've been examining every instance of "di rimpiatto" and each one fits an interpretation of "di nascosto". Finally I found a definition. In a "Vocabolario crespinese: Il dialetto pisano di campagna" "Di rimpiatto, loc. Di nascosto. Fà le ’ose di rimpiatto". This author is driving me crazy, he peppers his text with ancient Greek and Latin and then throws in some of his own local dialect for good measure to keep me on my toes! http://www.ilcrespinese.it/vocabolario-dialettale/darole.htm...
that is what I feel. In fact having slept on it, I wonder whether "di rimpiatto" means quite simply the same as "di nascosto" which would really make some sense. That these modern forms are really secretly playing at old style ornamental architecture.
Daniel Frisano Paulon Italy Local time: 01:50 Works in field Native speaker of: Italian, Friulian PRO pts in category: 12
Grading comment
Hi Arrigo. Nobody I spoke to gave me any "certain" answer on this one. The author's colleague said "hidden". which is what I went for. It does fit the context, but not obviously.
Notes to answerer
Asker: Hi Arrigo, did you understand it when you read it, or did you have to look in the dictionary for confirmation, assistance? "Rimpiattare" is in the dictionary but not "rimpiatto".
1 hr confidence:
is hidden by / blends into
Explanation: On first reading this I got the idea that the writer is talking about the way the design of the lining or upholstery of the building is hidden into the decoration so that it blends for visual effect or aesthetic interior design reasons. In this way they are "played" together. Maybe this could be one of interpreting it?
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My answer is not limited to one particular building. Maybe the text is saying that the important linings of the buildings were generally blended well (or subtly hidden) into the ornate features and renaissance/baroque design.
LaraBarnett United Kingdom Local time: 00:50 Specializes in field Native speaker of: English PRO pts in category: 16 1 corroborated select project in this pair and field
Notes to answerer
Asker: Lara, this is not about any building in particular, but about architecture in general. I believe that by the Academia he means Renaissance and Baroque architecture, which was so beautifully ornate.
Explanation: Deducing on the basis of combining these two references: where 'appiatare' means 'to make sth. flat or smooth', and cites 'di rimpiatto' as an example; together with 'rimpiattare', which it says is the same as 'appiatare' i.e. 'rendere piatto o schiacciato'. Above all, in the context this makes good sense.
I reckon therefore it means 'plays at flattening out', not 'plays at hide and seek'.
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With the 'concezione epidermica' and 'quasi calligrafica' etc I don't think there can be much doubt about it.
-------------------------------------------------- Note added at 2 hrs (2012-01-21 00:44:31 GMT) --------------------------------------------------
Yes: if you think of most modern 'glass and steel' buildings, the façade is a secondary structure that is hung from the load-bearing one. What we see is pure surface, in this sense the decorative or ornamental aspect is merely 'calligraphic', confined to expressions and variations of the generally smooth or flattened surfaces. In older ('Academic') architecture the ornamentation is a direct outgrowth of the structural elements (and sometimes a result of innovation in these). I'm not sure about use of 'lining', btw, I'd use building envelope or enclosure.
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Super... Membrane is another one I like to use... good luck with the rest!
fionn Mexico Local time: 18:50 Specializes in field Native speaker of: English PRO pts in category: 8
Notes to answerer
Asker: Hi Fionn, I found this quote elsewhere, in which "di rimpiatto" clearly means "in hiding".
Ora, i Magi son ripartiti, e anche san Giuseppe, accomodata alla meglio sull'asino la sua famigliola, è dovuto scappar di rimpiatto verso il vostro paese per salvar dalle grinfie d'Erode il figliolo della sua donna.
As for the interpretation. Elsewhere in the text, he comments on the fact that shells of contemporary deconstructivist architecture hide the structure like a skin, so the hidden (flattening yourself against a wall so no one can see you I suppose) would fit too. Unfortunately he drops the subject there without elaborating further.
Asker: This piece comes a little later. He says in modern buildings the load bearing parts are separated from the aesthetic outer shell, which has a separate framework to support it. Here he continues with that idea. Reminds me of US houses, a timber frame and an ornate plastic shell with bricks and stonework painted on it.
Le facciate corrono il rischio di essere false perché tutte ugualmente appese, non più sorreggenti ma sorrette. In tal senso vi è una sostanziale diversità, fra i disegni esecutivi e di dettaglio delle facciate montate a secco ed i disegni stereotomici rinascimentali e barocchi, dove tecnologia, forma e struttura sono tutt’uno.
Asker: I've used variously, envelope, shell and skin in the actual translation and occasionally linings as a last resort for rivestimento (I'm much better at tunnels).
Asker: Cheers, I'm on the last chapter, its gone from Socates to Plato and Hegel and from Vitruvius to Jorn
Utzon and beyond!
Asker: Hi Fionn. The consensus native Italian and architect's opinion was on hidden or hide and seek.
The translation workplace 
peer agreement (net): +2
