18:17 Jan 1 

For Mapei SpA. Here's another text that might shed some more light on the issue:
"Infatti, solo una rete commerciale capillare e competente rende possibile il primo acquisto dei propri prodotti da parte di nuovi clienti, consente di differenziarsi per il servizio pre e post vendita (e.g., assistenza tecnica) e permette il presidio degli influenzatori del mercato locale in modo da creare nuove opportunità commerciali."

16:02 Dec 31, 2011 

Yep, we're really just guessing without more context. Didn't think about marketing in the broad sense. Moreover, the question was posted as Bus/financial which should mean something. The asker has to definitely provide us with more context.

15:40 Dec 31, 2011 

Great, you can even disagree, agrees are so boring :). I think that without more context we are really just guessing. If Gruppo is the subject of presidiare it would suggest that there may be other groups which "presidiano" other markets. As for "protecting market share" if the immediate context speaks of "quota di mercato" then very definitely, but if there is no mention, then this is just doing what sales people do, marketing in the broad sense of the term. How would you translate presidio del rischio in a credit context other than "risk management". Here "presidiare" just means to manage,

14:53 Dec 31, 2011 

I'm sorry but this time I'm neutral about your answer.
Who "presidia" is the Group and the meaning of "presidiare il mercato" even in this poor contest it is likely to be what you exactly pointed out i.e. "maintaining market share". IMHO of course. Have a fruitful New Year.

17:56 Dec 30, 2011 

"It's difficult to generalise and not even terribly useful without specific examples." I agree, especially on the "difficult to generalise". One compliment I received on Kudoz, which I appreciated very much was somebody who said, "I wish I could learn to think like you." Now if I could explain how I think I could set out general rules to follow. I have taught a lot of English in my life, but never actual translation,

17:47 Dec 30, 2011 

Hi again Jim.

The overall meaning of the passage is clear enough and your interpretation is the most likely. It would be nice to have confirmation from Mr P., though.

Thanks for your compliment. I'm afraid I have no reference for you, although similar sentiments are frequently expressed by others. When I used to teach translation workshops, I got plenty of practice at making comments like that in English and Italian ;-)

Finally if-it-ain't-broke-don't-fix-it is an excellent rule of thumb so long as you remember that languages work on a number of levels: context or culture-related considerations, thematic consistency, euphony and all sorts of other priorities can sometimes make it preferable to reformulate the translation anyway. It's difficult to generalise and not even terribly useful without specific examples.

17:17 Dec 30, 2011 

There is of course a rider to your equivalent impact goal. If a match for the semantic fields of the figurative language used in the source text exists in the target language and if that match has an equivalent impact, then you must use it in preference to other translations with a similar impact.
As a rule of thumb, if it isn't broken, then don't try and fix it.

17:03 Dec 30, 2011 

From a purely business viewpoint, the subject of presidia has to be
"funzionari di vendita e degli agenti delle Società del Gruppo" and presidia a typo for presidiano.

16:59 Dec 30, 2011 

"Equivalent impact is the goal, not matching the semantic fields of the figurative language used in the source text." Very neatly put. I seem to spend most of my working life in pursuit of that goal. Do you have a reference for it, or is it totally yours? My training is in cognitive psychology and psycholinguistics (read Chomsky). I find word and phrase frequency (closely connected with collocations) fascinating.

10:18 Dec 30, 2011 

@ Peter - It'd still be nice to know what the subject actually is, though ;-)

10:13 Dec 30, 2011 

Worked very late last night and overslept. I now have a cup of coffee in hand. I tend to use kudoz to limber up on other people's translations before starting on my own.
I took your "I wouldn't worry too much about reproducing the dead military metaphor in "presidiare", as a "Don't worry, go ahead and use one", rather than a "Don't bother searching for a military metaphor, use something else."
Sorry about that.

10:02 Dec 30, 2011 

I agree with just about everything you say.

The only thing is I don't see the point of matching a high-frequency - and therefore stone-dead - Italian military metaphor with a specifically military one in English. Equivalent impact is the goal, not matching the semantic fields of the figurative language used in the source text. What we're looking for is an unobtrusive English expression that is used as commonly as "presidiare" is in Italian management speak.

Whether you can leave out an explicit reference to "market" here depends on the context but I agree this notion should be included and obvious to the reader.

09:41 Dec 30, 2011 

This word, the noun and the verb (presidio and presidiare) is used extremely frequently in Italian financial and commercial language. For instance "presidio del rischio" for which the standard translation in Basel and generally is "risk management"
http://www.google.it/search?source=ig&hl=it&rlz=&q="presidio...

In the case of "presidio del mercato" there is no single translation, which fits all cases. Generally it is a reference to the work of the sales department, which is simply selling. Sometimes it used in the sense of protecting market share. However, beyond protecting market share there is no frequent use military metaphors to translate this or any use I can think of which sound natural in English. I spent years looking for a "dead military metaphor" to use in this context and have found none. Obviously if you omit the "crucial" term "market" then there are many (sales persons and ... who are battling valiantly), but you cannot omit a reference to market in some way without radically changing the meaning. This is a common technical term. Please post Giles.

08:52 Dec 30, 2011 

The verb is singular but the only singular noun is "Gruppo", which is part of an attributive phrase and an unlikely candidate for the role of subject.

Is there a typo ("agenti delle Società" -> "agenti della Società" or "presidia" -> "presidiano")?

I wouldn't worry too much about reproducing the dead military metaphor in "presidiare". The idea is that the agents/group company operate(s) "on the ground/territory". If you want to retain an explicit reference to "market", you could try another metaphor along the lines of "at the market interface", depending on the product sector.

19:37 Dec 29, 2011 

Can you tell us what the company is without giving away who you're doing this translation for? If not, what kind of company is it? Also, what is the document, and who does "sono" refer to?
I thought it might be market-leading or market-making, but I'm not sure.