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gentili / egregi

English translation: A Kind Sir becomes a Dear Sir,

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GLOSSARY ENTRY (DERIVED FROM QUESTION BELOW)
Italian term or phrase:gentili / egregi
English translation:A Kind Sir becomes a Dear Sir,
Entered by: lizzy g
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10:34 Oct 25, 2006
Italian to English translations [PRO]
Art/Literary - General / Conversation / Greetings / Letters
Italian term or phrase: gentili / egregi
Context: advice on writing letters, cautioning would-be writers to avoid angry tones.

Se stai per esplodere di rabbia, non cerchi il dialogo:ti lanci sulla tastiera per dirgliene quattro.
I signori da gentili diventano egregi; i saluti da cordiali, &distinti; e non sei a disposizione per nessun chiarimento.

Clearly, 'gentili' and 'egregi' can both be translated as 'dear'. However, I need to distinguish between them and think I need 'egregi' to sound more icy.

Any bright ideas?!
lizzy g
Local time: 23:58
A Kind Sir becomes a Dear Sir,
Explanation:




or

A Kind Sir becomes a DEAR SIR,


--------------------------------------------------
Note added at 12 mins (2006-10-25 10:47:28 GMT)
--------------------------------------------------

Your Kind Sir, is an affable bloke whose reply you can’t wait to receive, whilst your Dear Sir, is the one whose ear you’re about to rip to shreds with a hail of abuse.

The first is friendly and warm, the second - formal and cold.
Selected response from:

Jo Macdonald
Spain
Local time: 00:58
Grading comment
Thank you for this answer, Jo!
4 KudoZ points were awarded for this answer

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Summary of answers provided
4 +9A Kind Sir becomes a Dear Sir,
Jo Macdonald
4 +5Dear Mr./Dear Sir
Enza Longo
4 +3dear/esteemed
Angela Arnone
3 +1dear?Loretta Bertoli
4 -1to the kind attention of ----> to the attention of
Angelo Berbotto
3Dear / Illustrious
Umberto Cassano


  

Answers


1 min   confidence: Answerer confidence 3/5Answerer confidence 3/5 peer agreement (net): +1
dear?


Explanation:
secondo me potrebbe andare bene dear ...

Loretta Bertoli
Local time: 00:58
Native speaker of: Native in ItalianItalian

Peer comments on this answer (and responses from the answerer)
agree  Debora Villa: Dear Dir/Madam
2 mins
  -> grazie debora!

agree  Caterina Passari: sì,Dear,Sir,Madam...
11 mins
  -> grazie caterina

neutral  Angela Arnone: I think Lizzie wants an alternative to "dear"
21 mins

disagree  M-A-Z: Concordo con Angela Arnone
1 hr
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8 mins   confidence: Answerer confidence 4/5Answerer confidence 4/5 peer agreement (net): +9
A Kind Sir becomes a Dear Sir,


Explanation:




or

A Kind Sir becomes a DEAR SIR,


--------------------------------------------------
Note added at 12 mins (2006-10-25 10:47:28 GMT)
--------------------------------------------------

Your Kind Sir, is an affable bloke whose reply you can’t wait to receive, whilst your Dear Sir, is the one whose ear you’re about to rip to shreds with a hail of abuse.

The first is friendly and warm, the second - formal and cold.


Jo Macdonald
Spain
Local time: 00:58
Native speaker of: Native in EnglishEnglish
PRO pts in category: 27
Grading comment
Thank you for this answer, Jo!

Peer comments on this answer (and responses from the answerer)
agree  Mara Ballarini: and this one is also good, I think :-)
10 mins

agree  Umberto Cassano
22 mins

agree  geapep
31 mins

agree  Ivana UK
1 hr

agree  Fiorsam
1 hr

agree  Cristina Chaplin
1 hr

agree  snatalieg: this SO doesn't translate to English because titles are everything in Ital. formal letterwriting!
2 hrs

agree  Romina Minucci: MI SEMBRA PERFETTO
3 hrs

agree  Vanita
19 hrs
  -> Thanks guys
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19 mins   confidence: Answerer confidence 4/5Answerer confidence 4/5 peer agreement (net): +5
Dear Mr./Dear Sir


Explanation:
from Dear Mr. to Dear Sir

Enza Longo
Canada
Local time: 18:58
Works in field
Native speaker of: English
PRO pts in category: 12

Peer comments on this answer (and responses from the answerer)
agree  Lesley Burgon: it's icy and gets the point across to me :-)
30 mins
  -> thanks, Lesley

disagree  M-A-Z: "Sir" also conveys a tone of politeness, which is not intended here
47 mins
  -> on the contrary - I think the intent is to remain polite but convey a note of iciness and formality

agree  Anna Strowe: This sounds the most natural to me. Some of the other ideas are just too far from standard English, and seem less cold and formal, and more convoluted. Replacing the name with "Sir", replaces the personal with the formal. Edit: American English.
1 hr
  -> thanks, Anna - my thoughts exactly

agree  maryrose: Yes, we're talking about a concept to convey a change in tone - "Dear Mr Smith" becomes "Dear Sir" - not a literal application of the terms.
1 hr
  -> Cheers, Maryrose!

agree  Costanza T.
3 hrs
  -> thanks Costanza!

agree  xxxMaudarg: Agree with Anna
4 hrs
  -> thanks, Maureen

agree  Peter Cox
12 hrs
  -> thanks, Peter
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20 mins   confidence: Answerer confidence 3/5Answerer confidence 3/5
Dear / Illustrious


Explanation:
As you say " 'gentili' and 'egregi' can both be translated as 'dear'". That's right! However "egregio" seems to be more formal than "gentile".

MAYBE in this case you should focus more on their actual meaning than on their actual use in letter-writing opening formulas... (it's just an idea).



Umberto Cassano
Italy
Local time: 00:58
Works in field
Native speaker of: Italian
PRO pts in category: 20
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10 mins   confidence: Answerer confidence 4/5Answerer confidence 4/5 peer agreement (net): +3
dear/esteemed


Explanation:
I think if I were ever to do such a thing, lungi da me, as write a nasty e-mail with an icy greeting, I might opt for the Dickensian "esteemed" ...

--------------------------------------------------
Note added at 24 mins (2006-10-25 10:59:17 GMT)
--------------------------------------------------

You might even not greet ... just a short, sharp "Sir," or "Madam,"

Angela Arnone
Local time: 00:58
Works in field
Native speaker of: Native in EnglishEnglish
PRO pts in category: 43

Peer comments on this answer (and responses from the answerer)
agree  Mara Ballarini: sì, una possibile differenziazione :-)
7 mins

agree  kpi: my sentiments exactly!
9 mins

agree  Alfredo Tutino: to be reminded of Dickens is always good - in Lizzie's text one might say something like " 'a 'Sir' is no longer 'dear' "... And of course I can't think of a single instance where you'd write icy greetings and nasty e-mails... :-)
27 mins
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8 mins   confidence: Answerer confidence 4/5Answerer confidence 4/5 peer agreement (net): -1
to the kind attention of ----> to the attention of


Explanation:
Hi Lizzy,
in some faxes I have seen the formula: to the kind attention of X


a functional equivalent of gentili / egregi

could be to use

to the kind attention of and simply to the attention of X to convey the difference in politeness...

just an idea

cheers
Angelo

--------------------------------------------------
Note added at 33 minutos (2006-10-25 11:08:14 GMT)
--------------------------------------------------

another option could be:

Dear Mr X ---> Mr X (plain)



Angelo Berbotto
Local time: 23:58
Works in field
Native speaker of: Native in SpanishSpanish

Peer comments on this answer (and responses from the answerer)
neutral  Caterina Passari: scusa ma...l'espressione in questione non traduce "gentili" ,é un sottoporre un qualcosa all'attenzione di XXX...ciao
5 mins
  -> what you need here is a functional equivalent because a literal equivalent is not possible: it is possible to say to the attention of Mr X and to the kind attention of Mr X whereas any expression other than Dear sounds odd in business correspondance - AB

disagree  M-A-Z: I agree with you on the functional approach, but the English expression needs to be smooth and easy to read. Your suggestions seem rather clumpsy to me.
1 hr
  -> your comments are noted
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