ProZ.com global directory of translation services
 The translation workplace
Ideas
KudoZ home » Italian to English » Government / Politics

Gattopardesco

English translation: [Re-word] things only change in order for them to remain the same


Login or register (free and only takes a few minutes) to participate in this question.

You will also have access to many other tools and opportunities designed for those who have language-related jobs
(or are passionate about them). Participation is free and the site has a strict confidentiality policy.
GLOSSARY ENTRY (DERIVED FROM QUESTION BELOW)
Italian term or phrase:Gattopardesco
English translation:[Re-word] things only change in order for them to remain the same
Options:
- Contribute to this entry
- Include in personal glossary

16:32 Sep 19, 2011
    The asker opted for community grading. The question was closed on 2011-09-22 19:54:08 based on peer agreement (or, if there were too few peer comments, asker preference.)


Italian to English translations [PRO]
Social Sciences - Government / Politics
Italian term or phrase: Gattopardesco
"L'immanenza gattopardesca di questo povero Paese si manifesta anche nelle piccole cose. I soldi e la convenienza vincono sempre sulla meritocrazia."

I'm looking for a translation of "gattopardesco". I know it means "of or relating to a conservative policy according to which any reform must not change the root of existing privileges" but I'm having a hard time finding a concise way (one-two words) of saying that in English. The only thing that came to mind was "Leopardesque" but it doesn't convey the same meaning in English.
Thanks!
Rosanna
Local time: 19:52
[Re-word] things only change in order for them to remain the same
Explanation:
Here's an idea:

Even trivialities betray the insidious belief in this wretched country that things only change in order for them to remain the same: money and convenience always prevail over merit.

Playing on the Leopard's famous dictum:
"Se vogliamo che tutto rimanga come è bisogna che tutto cambi"

--------------------------------------------------
Note added at 39 mins (2011-09-19 17:11:30 GMT)
--------------------------------------------------

Or, better:

Even trivialities betray the insidious belief in this wretched country that things MAY only change in order for them to remain the same: money and convenience always prevail over merit.

--------------------------------------------------
Note added at 1 hr (2011-09-19 17:49:37 GMT)
--------------------------------------------------

Hi Rosanna,

If space is at a serious premium...

Even trivialities betray the insidious belief in this wretched country that **change is the handmaiden of conservatism**: money and convenience always prevail over merit.
Selected response from:

David Turnbull
United Kingdom
Local time: 18:52
Grading comment
Selected automatically based on peer agreement.
4 KudoZ points were awarded for this answer



Summary of answers provided
3 +6[Re-word] things only change in order for them to remain the same
David Turnbull
4 +3Gattopardesque
Teresa Valaer
2s. below
Wendy Streitparth
Summary of reference entries provided
liz askew
a related kudoz
luskie

Discussion entries: 10





  

Answers


16 mins   confidence: Answerer confidence 4/5Answerer confidence 4/5 peer agreement (net): +3
Gattopardesque


Explanation:
In these cases it is best to use the original term with the 'esque' ending.

Example sentence(s):
  • Meanwhile, I hear that a fearsome Gattopardesque throng is girding its loins to go into battle for an opera house, armed with timpana and a bridge-table, which entirely befits their Tomasi di Lampedusa outlook on contemporary life.
Teresa Valaer
Local time: 19:52
Native speaker of: Native in EnglishEnglish
Notes to answerer
Asker: I think this might work best! We would say "Pasolinian" for "Pasoliniano" so this is a feasible option.


Peer comments on this answer (and responses from the answerer)
neutral  philgoddard: But what does this mean? (Pardon my ignorance.)
16 mins
  -> You would have to see the movie "Il Gattopardo" by Visconti di get a real feeling and understanding for what this means. However, the asker already explained the political meaning.

agree  Fiorsam: yes, if someone is not familiar with the terms, it won't matter whether it's in It or in En :)
1 hr

disagree  liz askew: English speakers aren't going to understand this at all! In fact this is more like the French! I would not use this.
1 hr
  -> Some English speakers might not know who Visconti or Tommaso di Lampedusa are. But they can find out if we allow these figures in our discourse. Have you read the example sentence? The writer must have learned the term Gattopardesque somewhere.

agree  Russell Jones: With Fiorsam. Even Anglophones familiar with di Lampedusa would be most unlikely to appreciate what David has so excellently explained.
1 hr

neutral  BrigitteHilgner: One needs to know the novel to understand this.
1 hr

neutral  David Turnbull: The point is that "gattopardesca" is fairly common (http://bit.ly/qIxxwL) and its meaning is clear to an Italian-speaker; it is up to us to find something that presents the meaning to English-speakers, not to inspire them to read Lampedusa.
1 hr

agree  Michael Korovkin: Let them, for a change, read good ole' Lampedusean Tommy instead of Don Brown and other garbage like that.
5 hrs

agree  luskie: also agree with michael :) del resto, anche per la maggior parte degli italiani non è di facile comprensione (and also agree with Rachel as for the 'Best answer to be selected by the community' option!)
16 hrs
Login to enter a peer comment (or grade)

16 mins   confidence: Answerer confidence 3/5Answerer confidence 3/5 peer agreement (net): +6
[Re-word] things only change in order for them to remain the same


Explanation:
Here's an idea:

Even trivialities betray the insidious belief in this wretched country that things only change in order for them to remain the same: money and convenience always prevail over merit.

Playing on the Leopard's famous dictum:
"Se vogliamo che tutto rimanga come è bisogna che tutto cambi"

--------------------------------------------------
Note added at 39 mins (2011-09-19 17:11:30 GMT)
--------------------------------------------------

Or, better:

Even trivialities betray the insidious belief in this wretched country that things MAY only change in order for them to remain the same: money and convenience always prevail over merit.

--------------------------------------------------
Note added at 1 hr (2011-09-19 17:49:37 GMT)
--------------------------------------------------

Hi Rosanna,

If space is at a serious premium...

Even trivialities betray the insidious belief in this wretched country that **change is the handmaiden of conservatism**: money and convenience always prevail over merit.

David Turnbull
United Kingdom
Local time: 18:52
Specializes in field
Native speaker of: Native in EnglishEnglish
PRO pts in category: 15
Grading comment
Selected automatically based on peer agreement.
Notes to answerer
Asker: Thanks, that is the meaning but it's far too wordy. I'm looking for a very concise one or two word equivalent.

Asker: Brigette- it is wordy because, as I mentioned in my original post, I only have space for ONE or max TWO words. Space is a serious premium as it's for a subtitle. As useful as David's answer is, I personally cannot use it.


Peer comments on this answer (and responses from the answerer)
agree  Rachel Fell: PS: Now that we know it's for a subtitle, maybe 'a plus ça change attitude' might work-? Not the same really, but still, at least it's English;-)
34 mins
  -> Thanks, Rachel. "Plus ça change" works for me!

agree  liz askew: Great, everybody will know what this means now!
1 hr
  -> Thanks, Liz.

agree  BrigitteHilgner: I don't think this is wordy - it's clear and likely to be understood.
1 hr
  -> Thanks, Brigitte.

agree  Umberto Cassano
2 hrs

agree  Chiara di Benedetto Brown
4 hrs

agree  missdutch: agree with Rachel too.
17 hrs
Login to enter a peer comment (or grade)

2 hrs   confidence: Answerer confidence 2/5Answerer confidence 2/5
s. below


Explanation:
Despite reforms the inherent ills remain unchanged....

A slight variation

Wendy Streitparth
Local time: 19:52
Works in field
Native speaker of: Native in EnglishEnglish
Login to enter a peer comment (or grade)




Reference comments


9 mins
Reference

Reference information:
http://webcache.googleusercontent.com/search?q=cache:HZ9VALC...

--------------------------------------------------
Note added at 11 mins (2011-09-19 16:43:35 GMT)
--------------------------------------------------

Seminar in ... - Communist Party of Great Britain (Marxist-Leninist)
www.cpgb-ml.org/index.php?secName=proletarian&subName... - Cached
... often more than one organisation in any given country sending a representative, ... The Spanish language has a word for this: gatopardismo, derived from ... The term refers to changes that are only apparent and not real – very much the ... of the Mexican super-rich is devoted to speculation rather than to the real economy, ...

liz askew
United Kingdom
Works in field
Native speaker of: Native in EnglishEnglish
PRO pts in category: 8
Login to enter a peer comment (or grade)

16 hrs peer agreement (net): +1
Reference: a related kudoz

Reference information:
,


    Reference: http://www.proz.com/kudoz/italian_to_english/tourism_travel/...
luskie
Italy
Native speaker of: Native in ItalianItalian

Peer comments on this reference comment (and responses from the reference poster)
agree  missdutch
1 hr
Login to enter a peer comment (or grade)




Return to KudoZ list


KudoZ™ translation help
The KudoZ network provides a framework for translators and others to assist each other with translations or explanations of terms and short phrases.



See also: