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Italian to English translations [PRO]
History | | Italian term or phrase: salme | | Il 3 luglio 1349 Oberto Piccamillo, Leonardo Vestito e Leonardo Cattaneo, mercanti genovesi, noleggiano il panfilo «San Giuliano» di Georgio Romeo di Genova, ancorato nel porto di Trapani, al fine di trasportare 600 salme di frumento dalla Sicilia a Tunisi. |
| | | salmas | Explanation:
Best leave it in Italian. Here's why:
salma s.f.(rar. misura di capacità) (in termine marinaresco, misura di quantità determinata) a twenty-five pound weight
[sources Pozzolini e C. Dizionario Italiano, ed Inglese di Giuseppe Baretti, 1828* and Fratelli Fabri's il Piccolo palazzi, Moderno dizionario della lingua italiana ]
*see web reference 1
Also:
salma s.f weight, ton
[source Burgess and Bowes Midget dictionaries, English-Italian, Italian- English, circa 1930 ] [not as reliable]
salma termine marinaresco, e vale. Misura di capacità usata in Sicilia per frumento di sedici tomoli**, e la salma grossa di venti.
[see web reference 2]
**A 'tomolo' is an old measure of agricultural land area with different sizes depending on the part of Italy it was used in. It is for measuring grain harvested and shipped at sea.
[ see http://it.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tomolo ]
But wait!
"botte: A maritime unit for tonnage of vessels. It was based on the botte, a wine container. Roughly, one botte = about 500 liters and contained 12 barili (see above). For purposes of measuring wine or vegetable oil, two botti (i.e. 1000 liters) made up one carro (wagon). One botte was subdivided into the salma and the staio in the same way as English measurement still speaks of gallons being divided into quarts and pints. One salma was ca. 160 liters and, itself, was subdivided into 16 staia.
[source http://faculty.ed.umuc.edu/~jmatthew/naples/archaic measures... ]
So 160 litres of grain at approximately 0.8 kg/litre*** = 128 kilograms = 1 salma
***You can find average grain weights online.
So far, we have:
● 1 salma equal to 25 pounds or about 11.3 kilograms
● 1 salma equal to 1 ton (let's say it's a short ton) or about 907 kilograms
● 1 salma equal to about 128 kilograms
This could go on and on and on.
I'm suggesting to use salma + the English 's' to make it plural in English.
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Note added at 2 hrs (2010-09-29 00:06:12 GMT)
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STEP ONE
I done me some high falutin mathematique and done gone found the average tomolo in Sicily is/was about 1.949 square metres.
STEP TWO
I estimated me the yield of 'frumento' in one of them there square metres is bout 270 grams. So, 270 x 1.949 = 526.23 kg/tomolo
STEP THREE
Aspirin!
STEP FOUR
Using 1 tomolo equal to an average 16 salmas in Sicily, results in 16 salmas x 526.23 grams/tomolo = approximately 8.4 kg
STEP FIVE
8.4 kg x 600 salme di frumento dalla Sicilia = circa 5 metric tons
So, I suppose you could add a footnote estimating 600 salme at 5 metric tons or tonnes.
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Note added at 3 hrs (2010-09-29 00:19:04 GMT)
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Unless it was 'salma grossa' which would change it to about 6 metric tons. But, they don't mention 'salma grossa.'
Maybe you could say 'approximately 5 to 6 metric tons.'
|
| Selected response from:
xxxMr Murray
Italy
| Grading comment I'm leaving other rare names for medieval currency in the original, though I haven't yet decided to italicize (without s) or to consider them English importations and give them an English plural. Thanks again.
4 KudoZ points were awarded for this answer |
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| Discussion entries: 0 |
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Automatic update in 00:
|
2 hrs confidence:   peer agreement (net): +5 salmas
Explanation:
Best leave it in Italian. Here's why:
salma s.f.(rar. misura di capacità) (in termine marinaresco, misura di quantità determinata) a twenty-five pound weight
[sources Pozzolini e C. Dizionario Italiano, ed Inglese di Giuseppe Baretti, 1828* and Fratelli Fabri's il Piccolo palazzi, Moderno dizionario della lingua italiana ]
*see web reference 1
Also:
salma s.f weight, ton
[source Burgess and Bowes Midget dictionaries, English-Italian, Italian- English, circa 1930 ] [not as reliable]
salma termine marinaresco, e vale. Misura di capacità usata in Sicilia per frumento di sedici tomoli**, e la salma grossa di venti.
[see web reference 2]
**A 'tomolo' is an old measure of agricultural land area with different sizes depending on the part of Italy it was used in. It is for measuring grain harvested and shipped at sea.
[ see http://it.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tomolo ]
But wait!
"botte: A maritime unit for tonnage of vessels. It was based on the botte, a wine container. Roughly, one botte = about 500 liters and contained 12 barili (see above). For purposes of measuring wine or vegetable oil, two botti (i.e. 1000 liters) made up one carro (wagon). One botte was subdivided into the salma and the staio in the same way as English measurement still speaks of gallons being divided into quarts and pints. One salma was ca. 160 liters and, itself, was subdivided into 16 staia.
[source http://faculty.ed.umuc.edu/~jmatthew/naples/archaic measures... ]
So 160 litres of grain at approximately 0.8 kg/litre*** = 128 kilograms = 1 salma
***You can find average grain weights online.
So far, we have:
● 1 salma equal to 25 pounds or about 11.3 kilograms
● 1 salma equal to 1 ton (let's say it's a short ton) or about 907 kilograms
● 1 salma equal to about 128 kilograms
This could go on and on and on.
I'm suggesting to use salma + the English 's' to make it plural in English.
--------------------------------------------------
Note added at 2 hrs (2010-09-29 00:06:12 GMT)
--------------------------------------------------
STEP ONE
I done me some high falutin mathematique and done gone found the average tomolo in Sicily is/was about 1.949 square metres.
STEP TWO
I estimated me the yield of 'frumento' in one of them there square metres is bout 270 grams. So, 270 x 1.949 = 526.23 kg/tomolo
STEP THREE
Aspirin!
STEP FOUR
Using 1 tomolo equal to an average 16 salmas in Sicily, results in 16 salmas x 526.23 grams/tomolo = approximately 8.4 kg
STEP FIVE
8.4 kg x 600 salme di frumento dalla Sicilia = circa 5 metric tons
So, I suppose you could add a footnote estimating 600 salme at 5 metric tons or tonnes.
--------------------------------------------------
Note added at 3 hrs (2010-09-29 00:19:04 GMT)
--------------------------------------------------
Unless it was 'salma grossa' which would change it to about 6 metric tons. But, they don't mention 'salma grossa.'
Maybe you could say 'approximately 5 to 6 metric tons.'
Reference: http://books.google.com/books?id=wDRAAAAAYAAJ&pg=PA442&lpg=P...
Reference: http://books.google.com/books?id=Qe89AAAAYAAJ&pg=PA417&lpg=P...
| xxxMr Murray
Italy
Native speaker of:  English
PRO pts in category: 4
|
| | Grading comment | I'm leaving other rare names for medieval currency in the original, though I haven't yet decided to italicize (without s) or to consider them English importations and give them an English plural. Thanks again. |
| Notes to answerer
Asker: Thank you very much for such a well-researched response! Fascinating, really. I am grateful for your patience and generosity. In conclusion, I guess we'll never really know how much grain was on that ship!
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The translation workplace 
