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carta/permesso di soggiorno

English translation: Carta di Soggiorno (Residence Permit) - Permesso di Soggiorno (Permit to Stay)

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GLOSSARY ENTRY (DERIVED FROM QUESTION BELOW)
Italian term or phrase:carta/permesso di soggiorno
English translation:Carta di Soggiorno (Residence Permit) - Permesso di Soggiorno (Permit to Stay)
Entered by: Christina Townsend
Options:
- Contribute to this entry
- Include in personal glossary

14:08 Oct 4, 2006
Italian to English translations [PRO]
Law/Patents - Law (general) / immigration
Italian term or phrase: carta/permesso di soggiorno
I'm working on a leaflet for distribution amongst immigrants living in Italy which outlines the procedures for obtaining residence/stay permits etc.
Throughout the leaflet "carta di soggiorno" and "permesso di soggiorno" are referred to as two different things, and from what I've gleaned on Internet they appear to be two different means of staying legally in Italy.
In a past ProZ question "permesso di soggiorno" was translated as "permit of stay", but what is the "carta di soggiorno"? I don't think that "residence permit" would be an accurate translation for "carta di soggiorno" as suggested in a previous ProZ question, but perhaps I am wrong.
Can anyone shed any light? Thanks in advance!
Chris
Christina Townsend
Local time: 16:35
Carta di Soggiorno (Residence Permit) - Permesso di Soggiorno (Permit to Stay)
Explanation:

Don’t think anyone found exactly this answer yet.
Check this site: http://rome.angloinfo.com/countries/italy/residency.asp
Both the Carta di Soggiorno (Residence Permit) and the Permesso di Soggiorno (Permit to Stay) are residence permits.
A resident is either anyone not considered to be a tourist, or anyone who plans to stay in Italy for more than three months (90 days).
Under Italian law, every foreigner in Italy is considered to be either a tourist or a resident. As a rule, a tourist is a foreigner staying in Italy for less than three months. People coming on a business trip, students enrolled in short courses, people doing research on their own, for example, are considered to be tourists, as long as the stay does not exceed three months.
A resident is either anyone not considered to be a tourist, or anyone who plans to stay in Italy for more than three months (90 days). Foreigners working in Italy, seasonal workers, students enrolled in full-time education for a full academic year, or those who wish to live in Italy are considered to be residents. Residents require a permit.

· A Permesso di Soggiorno ("permit to stay") has an expiration date, is renewable, and is issued for the first six years of residence in Italy but is renewable
· A Carta di Soggiorno ("residence permit") is issued for an indefinite period, after the sixth year of residence in Italy except in the case of EU-citizens who have an automatic right to one from their time of arrival in Italy
All foreigners (both EU and non-EU) in Italy for over 90 days require a "stay permit" (Permesso di Soggiorno). This is a permit to stay in the country and not a residence card; it is not obligatory for a foreigner to have residency in Italy provided they have a valid stay permit and are therefore registered in the commune.
There is a variety of permits, each specific to individual circumstances. It is important that the permit type correlates with the intentions of the permit holder; if the applicant has a visa it must correlate with that (student, non-active, etc.). The Permesso di Soggiorno has a limited period of validity which matches the applicants purpose. Permits can be renewed.
The following are the most commonly issued stay permits:
· Permesso di Soggiorno per coesione familiare: permit for the foreign spouse and children of an Italian citizen
· Permesso di Soggiorno per lavore: work permit for employees
· Permesso di Soggiorno per lavoro autonomo/indipendente: permit for self-employed workers
· Permesso di Soggiorno per turismo: permit for tourists. Anyone visiting for more than a week, who isn't staying in a hotel, official campsite or boarding house
· Permesso di Soggiorno per studio: student permit
· Permesso di Soggiorno per ricongiungimento familiare: permit for the family and dependent parents of foreigners married to Italian citizens
· Permesso di Soggiorno per dimora: for foreigners who are establishing residence in Italy and who are not planning on working
Application for the Permesso di Soggiorno must be made at the local Police Headquarters (Questura), in person, within eight days of arriving in Italy. The application can take up to three months to process.


http://rome.angloinfo.com/countries/italy/residency.asp
Selected response from:

Jo Macdonald
Spain
Local time: 16:35
Grading comment
Well it's comforting to see that it's not just me that finds this all confusing ;-)
It was difficult to choose one answer as some were simliar, but in the end I'm optin for Jo's as it's the clearest. I think that use of the word "residence" in the translation of "permesso di soggiorno" is perhaps misleading, as the permit is indeed temporary.
I was also tempted by Cheryl's suggestion with permanent and short-term, but the leaflet is geared towards non-EU persons (who may not be native English speakers) and am not sure that "short-term permit" would be clear enough... I may even use "permanent" and "temporary" (permanent residence permit/ temporary permit to stay) for clarity...
Thanks very much to everyone for the help and information provided.

(now I'm going to find out about this "carta di soggiorno" business....looks like I'm entitled to one, too!)
4 KudoZ points were awarded for this answer



Summary of answers provided
4 +3permanent stay permit/(temporary) stay permit
Linda 969
3 +2residence document/residency permit
Ivana UK
4 +1Permantent Residency Permit /Restricted? Short Term? Permitcasinitaly
4Carta di Soggiorno (Residence Permit) - Permesso di Soggiorno (Permit to Stay)
Jo Macdonald
3 +1long-term residence permit/ residence permit
Umberto Cassano
4residence permit (permesso) and residence card (carta)
Thomas Roberts
3Residence card/permit to stay
Patricia Crotty


Discussion entries: 7





  

Answers


6 mins   confidence: Answerer confidence 3/5Answerer confidence 3/5 peer agreement (net): +2
residence document/residency permit


Explanation:
residence document and residency (or residence) permit

Form EEC1 Residence Document (Non-EEA family members of EEA) - Expatriation ... if so will a residence document enable me to work as self-employed dentist in the ...

www.easyexpat.com/forums/ntopic_3795.htm -

apply for a residence permit if your family members wish to apply for a residence document. ... residence document do not need to obtain an EEA family permit ...

www.nationalarchives.gov.uk/ERO/records/ho415/1/ind/eea.htm

--------------------------------------------------
Note added at 45 mins (2006-10-04 14:53:36 GMT)
--------------------------------------------------

What about "Permit to stay" and "Permit Card"??

Ivana UK
United Kingdom
Local time: 15:35
Works in field
Native speaker of: Native in EnglishEnglish, Native in ItalianItalian
PRO pts in category: 187

Peer comments on this answer (and responses from the answerer)
agree  Victor Cauchi: very much so!
1 hr
  -> thanks Victor!

agree  Rita Bilancio
16 hrs
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1 hr   confidence: Answerer confidence 4/5Answerer confidence 4/5 peer agreement (net): +3
permanent stay permit/(temporary) stay permit


Explanation:
Hi Christina -

From a well-translated site (you may want to read through the rest of the page for additional info)

http://www.comune.torino.it/en/housing/purchase-of-a-house-i...
Documents necessary for foreigners:
Stay permit [permesso di soggiorno]
Permanent stay permit [carta di soggiorno]


Linda 969
Local time: 16:35
Native speaker of: Native in ItalianItalian, Native in EnglishEnglish
PRO pts in category: 141

Peer comments on this answer (and responses from the answerer)
agree  casinitaly: sorry Linda, I didn't see yours before posting !
3 mins
  -> Hi Cheryl, no prob ;-)

agree  Maja Gerasimova: permesso di soggiorno per stranieri - foreigners' permit of stay; carta di soggiorno ( seguito da "a tempo indeterminato") -permanent permit of stay - I have the papers before me in the italian embassy
58 mins
  -> thanks, Maja

agree  Catherine Bolton: I think "stay" is the only thing that works. Residenza is something else!
2 hrs
  -> hi catherine - my feeling exactly
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1 hr   confidence: Answerer confidence 4/5Answerer confidence 4/5 peer agreement (net): +1
Permantent Residency Permit /Restricted? Short Term? Permit


Explanation:
this site explains that both the permesso and the carta are residency permits.
As the carta has no expiry date, but the permesso does, I woud suggest differentiating between them with by calling the carta a a Permanent Residency Permit.


    Reference: http://www.expatsinitaly.com/arrival/permesso.html
casinitaly
Local time: 16:35
Native speaker of: Native in EnglishEnglish

Peer comments on this answer (and responses from the answerer)
agree  Linda 969: definitely with *permanent* and *short-term*
5 mins
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1 hr   confidence: Answerer confidence 3/5Answerer confidence 3/5
Residence card/permit to stay


Explanation:
I don't see any reason not to go for the terms mentioned on Enza's site (although the carta di soggiorno is also referred to as a residence permit!).
So the "carta" qualifies as "resident" as it is indefinite whereas the "permesso" has to be renewed (as anyone who has sat in the questura for hours and hours can tell you) and so doesn't mention resident

Patricia Crotty
Local time: 16:35
Specializes in field
Native speaker of: Native in EnglishEnglish
PRO pts in category: 318
Login to enter a peer comment (or grade)

1 hr   confidence: Answerer confidence 3/5Answerer confidence 3/5 peer agreement (net): +1
long-term residence permit/ residence permit


Explanation:
For ***residence permit*** see EurodicAutom

For ***long-term residence permit*** see links below

www.statewatch.org/news/2005/aug/italy-new-terror-laws.pdf
http://www.ureader.co.uk/message/1897025.aspx

***Carta di soggiorno*** has also been translated as ***residence card*** .

www.eu-employment-observatory.net/ersep/imi62_uk/00100008.a...


"Another interesting new regulation concerning employment is the introduction of a ***residence card (carta di soggiorno)***. If the above requirements are fulfilled (valid residence permit, adequate income for the applicant's own livelihood or to provide for family members), this residence permit can be issued to foreigners who have been living in Italy for at least five years. An application may also be submitted for the applicant's spouse (living in the same household) and young children. The residence card has unlimited duration. Persons in possession of this document may, amongst other rights, "carry out any permitted activity, with the exception of those activities expressly prohibited for foreigners or reserved for Italian nationals by law" (Art. 7) (these would include, for example, employment in the public service). "

HTH

Umberto Cassano
Italy
Local time: 16:35
Native speaker of: Native in ItalianItalian
PRO pts in category: 44

Peer comments on this answer (and responses from the answerer)
agree  Jo Macdonald: Yep, residence permits.
2 hrs
  -> thanks
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4 hrs   confidence: Answerer confidence 4/5Answerer confidence 4/5
Carta di Soggiorno (Residence Permit) - Permesso di Soggiorno (Permit to Stay)


Explanation:

Don’t think anyone found exactly this answer yet.
Check this site: http://rome.angloinfo.com/countries/italy/residency.asp
Both the Carta di Soggiorno (Residence Permit) and the Permesso di Soggiorno (Permit to Stay) are residence permits.
A resident is either anyone not considered to be a tourist, or anyone who plans to stay in Italy for more than three months (90 days).
Under Italian law, every foreigner in Italy is considered to be either a tourist or a resident. As a rule, a tourist is a foreigner staying in Italy for less than three months. People coming on a business trip, students enrolled in short courses, people doing research on their own, for example, are considered to be tourists, as long as the stay does not exceed three months.
A resident is either anyone not considered to be a tourist, or anyone who plans to stay in Italy for more than three months (90 days). Foreigners working in Italy, seasonal workers, students enrolled in full-time education for a full academic year, or those who wish to live in Italy are considered to be residents. Residents require a permit.

· A Permesso di Soggiorno ("permit to stay") has an expiration date, is renewable, and is issued for the first six years of residence in Italy but is renewable
· A Carta di Soggiorno ("residence permit") is issued for an indefinite period, after the sixth year of residence in Italy except in the case of EU-citizens who have an automatic right to one from their time of arrival in Italy
All foreigners (both EU and non-EU) in Italy for over 90 days require a "stay permit" (Permesso di Soggiorno). This is a permit to stay in the country and not a residence card; it is not obligatory for a foreigner to have residency in Italy provided they have a valid stay permit and are therefore registered in the commune.
There is a variety of permits, each specific to individual circumstances. It is important that the permit type correlates with the intentions of the permit holder; if the applicant has a visa it must correlate with that (student, non-active, etc.). The Permesso di Soggiorno has a limited period of validity which matches the applicants purpose. Permits can be renewed.
The following are the most commonly issued stay permits:
· Permesso di Soggiorno per coesione familiare: permit for the foreign spouse and children of an Italian citizen
· Permesso di Soggiorno per lavore: work permit for employees
· Permesso di Soggiorno per lavoro autonomo/indipendente: permit for self-employed workers
· Permesso di Soggiorno per turismo: permit for tourists. Anyone visiting for more than a week, who isn't staying in a hotel, official campsite or boarding house
· Permesso di Soggiorno per studio: student permit
· Permesso di Soggiorno per ricongiungimento familiare: permit for the family and dependent parents of foreigners married to Italian citizens
· Permesso di Soggiorno per dimora: for foreigners who are establishing residence in Italy and who are not planning on working
Application for the Permesso di Soggiorno must be made at the local Police Headquarters (Questura), in person, within eight days of arriving in Italy. The application can take up to three months to process.


http://rome.angloinfo.com/countries/italy/residency.asp


Jo Macdonald
Spain
Local time: 16:35
Works in field
Native speaker of: Native in EnglishEnglish
PRO pts in category: 35
Grading comment
Well it's comforting to see that it's not just me that finds this all confusing ;-)
It was difficult to choose one answer as some were simliar, but in the end I'm optin for Jo's as it's the clearest. I think that use of the word "residence" in the translation of "permesso di soggiorno" is perhaps misleading, as the permit is indeed temporary.
I was also tempted by Cheryl's suggestion with permanent and short-term, but the leaflet is geared towards non-EU persons (who may not be native English speakers) and am not sure that "short-term permit" would be clear enough... I may even use "permanent" and "temporary" (permanent residence permit/ temporary permit to stay) for clarity...
Thanks very much to everyone for the help and information provided.

(now I'm going to find out about this "carta di soggiorno" business....looks like I'm entitled to one, too!)
Login to enter a peer comment (or grade)

16 hrs   confidence: Answerer confidence 4/5Answerer confidence 4/5
residence permit (permesso) and residence card (carta)


Explanation:
I would keep the link between carta and card.

If I can just add my tuppence worth, I think some degree of confusion derives from the Bossi-Fini immigration law.

Now residence cards are more or less the equivalent of a Green Card in the USA. However, before the Bossi-Fini, they were basically a variant of the permesso di soggiorno that was issued to EC citizens. They were issued for ten year periods (with requirement of a stamp after 5 years), after which they expired - I have one from the mid 90s to prove it!

I don't think permit to stay is used in anglophone contries - the usual term is residence permit, no?

Thomas Roberts
Specializes in field
Native speaker of: Native in EnglishEnglish, Native in ItalianItalian
PRO pts in category: 2564
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