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Italian to English translations [PRO] Social Sciences - Religion / social doctrine
Italian term or phrase:base speculativa
Discussion about how the "poor" are instrumental to the rich for the latter to get to heaven.... by giving alms to the needy, reaching heaven is assured.
"Se da un lato la chiesa cattolica ha sempre, fin dall’inizio del proprio magistero, rivendicato a sé la questione del povero da soccorrere ed ha elaborato la dottrina che ne costituiva la **base speculativa**, non si è mai posto il problema della soluzione del “pauperismo” "
I assume that 'speculativa' is being used here in the sense of a mirror (so, a doctrine 'mirroring this claim'??), rather than a speculation. but I still can't grab how to translate it....
Any help much appreciaated
Explanation: Agree with Vincent, and although Tom's answer is perhaps more *flowing* in English I think *base speculativa* was used for a reason. Speculative in a philosophical sense, (and in its original meaning in fact) means *to reflect or theorize without a factual basis*.
In this sense it is almost synonymous with *theoretical*, and I think I'd go for that in English, given *speculation* and its variations make one think more of stock markets etc.
Perhaps something along the lines of:
.....elaborated the doctrine on which this was theoretically based....
As I understand it they are saying that theoretically the Church has a doctrine on helping the poor and needy but has not in fact done anything concrete about solving pauperism.
HTH
Linda
thanks for your opinion: I am curious as to how one should 'liven up' this text, as well as to know what you might suggest... I am still not sure I fully understand the Italian
In my opinion, the term "speculativa" must be rendered in English, as this is also critical in nature, aside from presenting mere fact.
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Answers
7 mins confidence: peer agreement (net): +2
elaborated the doctrine *on which it was founded*
Explanation: I'd get around this by saying something like what I have suggested. IMHO the word "speculativa" is rhetorical and redundant, and means little or nothing.
-------------------------------------------------- Note added at 59 mins (2011-09-15 14:50:52 GMT) --------------------------------------------------
Yes Lorraine - in cases like this I don't believe in delaying the English-language reader. What needs to be mentioned "en passant" and without making a big song and dance about it is that the idea of giving to the needy is not whimsical but based on an underlying doctrine. This should not delay the reader, and the text should keep going as it does in Italian.
Tom in London United Kingdom Local time: 04:51 Works in field Native speaker of: English PRO pts in category: 20
Notes to answerer
Asker: Thanks, Tom, could be an idea. So you reckon 'base speculativa' really just means the basis of the doctrine (of giving alms to the needy) ? If so, like your turn of phrase!
1 hr confidence: peer agreement (net): +2
theoretically based
Explanation: Agree with Vincent, and although Tom's answer is perhaps more *flowing* in English I think *base speculativa* was used for a reason. Speculative in a philosophical sense, (and in its original meaning in fact) means *to reflect or theorize without a factual basis*.
In this sense it is almost synonymous with *theoretical*, and I think I'd go for that in English, given *speculation* and its variations make one think more of stock markets etc.
Perhaps something along the lines of:
.....elaborated the doctrine on which this was theoretically based....
As I understand it they are saying that theoretically the Church has a doctrine on helping the poor and needy but has not in fact done anything concrete about solving pauperism.
HTH
Linda
Linda Thody United Kingdom Local time: 04:51 Works in field Native speaker of: English PRO pts in category: 8
Grading comment
Thanks to everyone for good suggestions. The author of the book in question confirmed this solution!
1 hr confidence:
forged the doctrine governing said isse
Explanation: Though on the one hand the Catholic Church undertook the duty of aiding the poor from the onset of its magistrate and forged the doctrine governing said issue.....
my take on it.
I use "governing" because that is what the doctrine does, really.
i base myself on dealings with the Church, in which I took part, at the United Nations on Indigenous Peoples and Catholic Doctrine. That is the reason for my criticism, while respecting meaning of the text.
Of course, the term "forged" can be replaced by terms such as "built", "elaborated", "constructed"....
Vincent Lemma Italy Local time: 05:51 Native speaker of: English, Italian
Explanation: You already have several good options, but I thought to add a different view.
I hear a certain ironic or sarcastic tone in this, and I wonder if the author wasn't playing off of a certain ambiguity of 'speculativa'. Speculative theology has been central to Catholic theology for the last millennium, since the Scholastics, centered on philosophical and metaphysical reflections. Yet in this context I hear it playing off a different use of speculative, that the Church's doctrine of the poor was no better than speculatively grounded, or based on speculation. If my analysis is right, the use of 'speculative' seems about the only way to capture that sense in English.
Michael Brennen Local time: 22:51 Works in field Native speaker of: English PRO pts in category: 4
The translation workplace 
peer agreement (net): +2
