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gabbiano reale

English translation: Yellow-legged Gull

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GLOSSARY ENTRY (DERIVED FROM QUESTION BELOW)
Italian term or phrase:gabbiano reale
English translation:Yellow-legged Gull
Entered by: nyteck
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11:47 Aug 27, 2008
Italian to English translations [PRO]
Science - Zoology / birds
Italian term or phrase: gabbiano reale
my original text gives a latin name of Larus cachinnans Pallas, 1811 for "gabbiano reale". I've tried to look it up and I've found both "Caspian gull" and "yellow-legged gull". Which one is correct? The gulls in question live in Sardinia, Italy if that helps. thank you.
nyteck
Italy
Local time: 18:25
Yellow-legged Gull
Explanation:
Caspian Gull, which (as the name suggests) breeds on the Asian steppes, was once regarded as a form of Herring Gull (a name now used only for northern Europe's commonest "Gabbiano reale"), as was the Mediterranean's form, the Yellow-legged Gull. They were "split" into separate species in the early 1990s I believe, though this remains a controversial point among ornithologists.

Despite all my experience I find it quite challenging to tell them apart, which probably explains succinctly why they were once regarded as a single species.

The Yellow-legged Gull is the Mediterranean's most common breeding gull, and can be found almost anywhere near the coast and around landfill sites (yuk).

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Note added at 3 hrs (2008-08-27 15:21:46 GMT)
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The Caspian Gull can be seen occasionally in winter in the Mediterranean, especially along the coasts of Apulia and Sicily, most of them being inexperienced juveniles which have for some reason dispersed beyond the species' usual range. It has never bred in Italy

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Note added at 18 hrs (2008-08-28 06:31:35 GMT)
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Andrea Corso is probably the foremost Italian ornithologist, and in your link at http://www.ebnitalia.it/qB/QB001/gabbiano_ca.htm he writes "Uno degli esempi più emblematici è costituito dal Gabbiano reale del Caspio (L. (c.) cachinnans) le cui osservazioni si sono susseguite in maniera vertiginosa, arrivando a dimostrare come da rarissimo accidentale, quale era ritenuto sino a uno o due anni fa, debba invece essere considerato come un migratore regolare; difatti così è già avvenuto per la Germania, la Francia, la Gran Bretagna, l'Olanda ecc. " I count myself fortunate to have spent many hours in his company on bird surveys etc. I think the major problem here is probably Nyteck's source text, which is rather ambiguous, but rest assured that the Caspian Gull is not a breeding bird in Sardinia, whereas the Yellow-legged is extremely common. That said, however, if the text is actually referring to rare migrants rather than common breeders (can Nyteck provide more context?) then my interpretation is wrong
Selected response from:

Anthony Green
Italy
Local time: 18:25
Grading comment
I want to thank everyone who helped out with this gull controversy! If I understand correctly, "yellow-legged gull" covers more bases so to speak (there's more than one type)... so it seems like the safest choice. I'm leaving the caspian gull behind!
GRAZIE A TUTTI
4 KudoZ points were awarded for this answer

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Summary of answers provided
5 +2Yellow-legged Gull
Anthony Green
4gull (Larus cachinnans Pallas)
Helen Matthews
4Caspian gull
Alessandra Renna


  

Answers


7 mins   confidence: Answerer confidence 4/5Answerer confidence 4/5
Caspian gull


Explanation:
Il Gabbiano del Caspio (o Gabbiano pontico) (Larus cachinnans, Pallas, 1811) è un gabbiano molto simile al gabbiano reale zampegialle.
http://it.wikipedia.org/wiki/Larus_cachinnans
Il gabbiano reale zampegialle (o gabbiano reale mediterraneo) (Larus michahellis, Naumann 1840) è un uccello caradriiforme appartenente alla famiglia dei Laridi. Si può confondere con il gabbiano reale nordico (Larus argentatus) con il quale convive in alcune zone riproduttive e con il gabbiano del Caspio (Larus cachinnans).Il gabbiano zampe gialle tuttavia è caratterizzato da una livrea chiara e risulta più leggero del gabbiano reale nordico.
http://it.wikipedia.org/wiki/Larus_michahellis
They are both gabbiani reali, but Larus cachinnans is caspian gull

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Note added at 2 ore (2008-08-27 13:55:23 GMT)
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http://www.istitutoveneto.it/venezia/divulgazione/valli/?id=...

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Note added at 2 ore (2008-08-27 13:57:01 GMT)
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@ Wendell, have a look at the link above

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Note added at 3 ore (2008-08-27 15:36:47 GMT)
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Many websites report the presence of the Larus cachinnans (translated simply with gabbiano reale) in Sardinia. I'm sure that the Larus cachinnans is the Caspian Gull, while the Larus michahellis is the yellow-legged Gull (a Mediterranean species). The question is: are these references wrong, as they mistake the Larus cachinnans for the Larus michahellis or can you find the Larus cachinnans in Sardinia, too?

http://www.zente.it/Natura/uccelli_sardegna.html

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Note added at 3 ore (2008-08-27 15:38:04 GMT)
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Anthony, please resolve my doubt

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Note added at 3 ore (2008-08-27 15:42:09 GMT)
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http://www.ebnitalia.it/qB/QB001/gabbiano_ca.htm

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Note added at 3 ore (2008-08-27 15:46:04 GMT)
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http://www.birdguides.com/webzine/article.asp?a=228

Alessandra Renna
Local time: 18:25
Native speaker of: Native in ItalianItalian
PRO pts in category: 4

Peer comments on this answer (and responses from the answerer)
agree  Dana Rinaldi: There are several Gabbiani Reali but the only one with Larus cachinnans in the scienfic name is the Caspian Gull (Gabbiano del Caspio).
22 mins
  -> Grazie, Dana

disagree  WendellR: Based on what? It's impossible to know w/o an illo of the bird in question, in that the common name is used for at least two (maybe 3) spp. L. cacchinans is NOT called the gabbiano reale; it's called gabbiano del Caspio. Appunto.
1 hr
  -> Nytech says that the latin name of his "gabbiano reale" is Larus cachinnans Pallas, that is the Caspian gull

disagree  Anthony Green: I'm sorry to disagree with you so often, but the Caspian Gull is such a rarity in Italian waters that when one is found, some people will even travel long distances to see it (no, I wouldn't either!). No area of Italy would ever guarantee one...
3 hrs
  -> I understand, but then there's a mistake in the original text as it gives the latin name of Larus cachinnans Pallas for "gabbiano reale"

agree  Gina Ferlisi
9 hrs
  -> Grazie, Gina
Login to enter a peer comment (or grade)

3 hrs   confidence: Answerer confidence 5/5 peer agreement (net): +2
Yellow-legged Gull


Explanation:
Caspian Gull, which (as the name suggests) breeds on the Asian steppes, was once regarded as a form of Herring Gull (a name now used only for northern Europe's commonest "Gabbiano reale"), as was the Mediterranean's form, the Yellow-legged Gull. They were "split" into separate species in the early 1990s I believe, though this remains a controversial point among ornithologists.

Despite all my experience I find it quite challenging to tell them apart, which probably explains succinctly why they were once regarded as a single species.

The Yellow-legged Gull is the Mediterranean's most common breeding gull, and can be found almost anywhere near the coast and around landfill sites (yuk).

--------------------------------------------------
Note added at 3 hrs (2008-08-27 15:21:46 GMT)
--------------------------------------------------

The Caspian Gull can be seen occasionally in winter in the Mediterranean, especially along the coasts of Apulia and Sicily, most of them being inexperienced juveniles which have for some reason dispersed beyond the species' usual range. It has never bred in Italy

--------------------------------------------------
Note added at 18 hrs (2008-08-28 06:31:35 GMT)
--------------------------------------------------

Andrea Corso is probably the foremost Italian ornithologist, and in your link at http://www.ebnitalia.it/qB/QB001/gabbiano_ca.htm he writes "Uno degli esempi più emblematici è costituito dal Gabbiano reale del Caspio (L. (c.) cachinnans) le cui osservazioni si sono susseguite in maniera vertiginosa, arrivando a dimostrare come da rarissimo accidentale, quale era ritenuto sino a uno o due anni fa, debba invece essere considerato come un migratore regolare; difatti così è già avvenuto per la Germania, la Francia, la Gran Bretagna, l'Olanda ecc. " I count myself fortunate to have spent many hours in his company on bird surveys etc. I think the major problem here is probably Nyteck's source text, which is rather ambiguous, but rest assured that the Caspian Gull is not a breeding bird in Sardinia, whereas the Yellow-legged is extremely common. That said, however, if the text is actually referring to rare migrants rather than common breeders (can Nyteck provide more context?) then my interpretation is wrong

Anthony Green
Italy
Local time: 18:25
Specializes in field
Native speaker of: English
PRO pts in category: 16
Grading comment
I want to thank everyone who helped out with this gull controversy! If I understand correctly, "yellow-legged gull" covers more bases so to speak (there's more than one type)... so it seems like the safest choice. I'm leaving the caspian gull behind!
GRAZIE A TUTTI

Peer comments on this answer (and responses from the answerer)
agree  Rachel Fell: Collins (1999) describes those of the Black Sea/Caspian as "possibly full species", i.e.the same sp. but slight colour diffs. etc.
1 hr
  -> thanks Rachel

neutral  Alessandra Renna: Grazie, Anthony per il chiarimento. Attendiamo notizie da Nyteck
15 hrs
  -> prego!

agree  Umberto Cassano
17 hrs
  -> Thanks Umberto
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1 day20 hrs   confidence: Answerer confidence 4/5Answerer confidence 4/5
gull (Larus cachinnans Pallas)


Explanation:
Just a suggestion - not knowing what type of text you are translating, but would it be appropriate to perhaps leave the latin name in brackets? That way you'd know you definitely weren't getting it wrong. Particularly as the Sardinia forestry commission doesn't appear to acknowledge the presence of either yellow-legged or caspian gulls in Sardinia... See: http://sardegnaambiente.it/foreste/flora_fauna/fauna/uccelli...
Equally, they are not included in wikipedia's most common species of birds in the area: http://it.wikipedia.org/wiki/Elenco_della_fauna_sarda#G Hope this helps!

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Note added at 1 day21 hrs (2008-08-29 08:48:07 GMT)
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A more detailed description or photo of the bird MAY of course help, although if experts have trouble telling them apart..... :-)

Helen Matthews
United Kingdom
Local time: 17:25
Native speaker of: Native in EnglishEnglish
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