Login or register (free and only takes a few minutes) to participate in this question.
You will also have access to many other tools and opportunities designed for those who have language-related jobs (or are passionate about them). Participation is free and the site has a strict confidentiality policy.
Japanese to English translations [PRO] Bus/Financial - Computers (general)
Japanese term or phrase:変革
Hi, this is my first post here and i really enjoy surfing these forums.
I'm currently studying a Japanese > English translation course from Japan. I wouldn't really call it a course as such but more 添削. I just received a critique of my translation back from the company although there is one part in there that I'm not sure I agree with.
Source text
ASP(アプリケーション・サービス・プロバイダー)はeビジネスのような新しい概念ではないが、日本の従来型ビジネスプロセスだけではなく、eビジネスの提供方法も変革していくだろう。
My translation
ASPs (Application Service Providers) are not a new concept like e-Business; however they are not only likely to revolutionize traditional business models in Japan, but also the ways that e-Business is provided.
Checker Translation
ASPs (Application Service Providers) are not a new concept like e-Business; however they are not only likely to innovate traditional business models in Japan, but also the ways that e-Business is provided.
The only difference was the word 'Innovate'. Please also see comments from the checker:
この「変革」は、直訳するだけでは内容が伝わりません。この「変革」は「革新する」や「新生面を開く」という意味です。言葉が持つ表面上の意味だけでなく、内容面にも目を向けるようにしましょう。
I understand the importance of avoiding 直訳 although to me the word 変革 translated as 'innovate' in this context isn't natural. A search of google doesn't return many examples of innovate used as a verb (innovation very common), whereas revolutionize returns many.
I'm interested in hearing some feedback and your thoughts.
Explanation: I think the checker mixed the meaning of "revolutionize" for something not as positive as "innovate".
The problem with "innovate" is that it is a very positive statement about a process whose outcome is only guaranteed to fundamentally change the state of affairs.
You can also consider "reshape", "transform".
Caveat: I am not a native speaker of English.
-------------------------------------------------- Note added at 1 hr (2008-06-17 05:29:33 GMT) --------------------------------------------------
Besides, I think talking about "表面" and "内面" in a business buzzword filled text is a little over the top.
-------------------------------------------------- Note added at 5 hrs (2008-06-17 09:26:54 GMT) --------------------------------------------------
Stop paying for being checked and stop taking trials.
Start taking real jobs, do that for the "fun" first (while respecting deadlines etc) and then, when you start being confident _not_ on your linguistic ability but on your ability to make enough income to sustain yourself then start being pickiy with the rates and select the jobs that are the less painfull. That may take some time though ! :)
You need good dictionaries. The "reshape" suggestion was taken from the ビジネス技術実用英語大辞典.
-------------------------------------------------- Note added at 2 days29 mins (2008-06-19 04:10:28 GMT) Post-grading --------------------------------------------------
Anything that is available in the EPWING format. You can save the files on your computer and search them with a dedicated dictionary soft that accepts multiple dictionaries. Kotonoko on OSX is what I use.
Hi again, as for your Q about using Kudoz, you can find everything you ever wanted to know and more at http://www.proz.com/?sp=about/kudoz, particularly #50 about grading multiple answerers (you can only award points to 1 answer, btw).
Thanks for the tip. I am in Japan over the next few weeks so will head to kinkuniya and try and pick it up. Please let me know if there are any other dictionaries you recommend.
Hi all, thanks again for all of your useful information and replies. I added some KudoZ points to Jean as I particularly like the translation "reshape", "transform". What is the general protocol for awarding KudoZ? Do people generally award it to all answerers in a ranked order or just the best answer or am I overanalysing this? :) Still getting used to this forum, so would appreciate some advice.
Hi Mark,
Thanks for starting an excellent thread and taking a healthy look at what it takes to translate. You may also find HONYAKU forum interesting. http://groups.google.com/group/honyaku
Thanks for all of your replies. I'm not 100% not sure how to reply to them all individually as i'm still getting used to the website so will post general comments here.
Thanks for all the suggested translations. I'm glad to see i'm not the only one who thought innovate was strange in this context. You are correct. The checker is not a native English speaker. I deliberately left that out as didn't want that to influence your answer and I wanted to see if anyone would pick up on it.
I have a few other parts in the text that slightly concern me..... such as "but also the way that e-Business is provided". <-- This is how I translated it. Note that there is no 's' on 'way'. (above I accidently copied that part of the checker's text twice when I posted it so it shows as 'ways'). The checker added an 's' to 'way' and commented: 「方法」は1つとは限りません。よって複数形の方が良いでしょう。 I can see his point although I think that 'way' could mean either singular or plural depending on the reader (as there isn't much context here), so no need to make it plural. To my knowledge it's not necessary to specify and sounds unnatural... thoughts?
I'm relatively confident about my Japanese ability(although I know I still have much to learn), It's more my English that concerns me! I basically did this course to get some feedback and build a little confidence and eventually build a career in translation. The course cost me 30,000 yen and for that they only check 200 words or so of translated text for 2 課題 so I feel slightly ripped off. It also makes me dread the days I do have non-native English checkers (I'm not judging here - I know that not there are very good non-native English checkers) check my English and actually make it worse. Have any of you had that experience?
I do a lot of translation on my own. I buy a lot of 対訳 books and practise translating with them and also enter competitions. If anyone has any suggestions on how I can get further experience before I start taking trials, please let me know.
Hi Mark - the course (online? off-campus?) sounds interesting. Just curious as to whether your checker was a native speaker of EN or JP - do you happen to know?
Further, I don't really see much of a difference between "innovate" and "revolutionize". I think they are nearly the same, and most English speakers would consider them very similar and probably interchangeable in this context.
As a native English speaker, I must agree that to me, "innovate" is not a natural choice for this sentence. To me, "revolutionize" can certainly mean 革新する, etc. I definitely feel that "innovate" is an unnatural verb in this sentence.
Automatic update in 00:
Answers
2 hrs confidence: peer agreement (net): +1
bring innovations to
Explanation: I think the other answers above are good too.
On the checker's use of 'innovate' here I would say it is simply wrong - 'innovate' is an intransitive verb and cannot be used like this. (If I saw this in a translation, I would guess that the translator was not a native speaker of English.) So I would prefer your original translation to the 'corrected' one - but I suppose they have to justify the fee they are charging you somehow!
Duncan Adam Local time: 05:16 Native speaker of: English
Notes to answerer
Asker: そうですね。考えてみると、Revolutionizeはちょっと強すぎるかもしれません。
Revolutionizeにしたのは「変革をもたらす」= Revolutionize... somthing だからです。例:電気器具の普及は家事に大変革をもたらした。
The wide use of electrical appliances has revolutionized housework.
Explanation: I think "変革" means here "革命的(革新的)な変化(変遷)", that is, a kind of coined word here.
So, the sentence of interest can be translated into, for example, "they would revolutionarily (innovatively) change not only xxx but also ....".
What do you think?
-------------------------------------------------- Note added at 20 hrs (2008-06-18 00:03:49 GMT) --------------------------------------------------
日本語に合わせた英語です。
英語らしく、となると、
... they would have not only xxx but also ... undergone innovations.
などはどうでしょう?日本語は主語・述語の関係が曖昧なので、著者の趣旨がわかりにくく、翻訳しにくいですね。
yumom Local time: 13:16 Native speaker of: Japanese
1 hr confidence: peer agreement (net): +1
revolutionize/reshape
Explanation: I think the checker mixed the meaning of "revolutionize" for something not as positive as "innovate".
The problem with "innovate" is that it is a very positive statement about a process whose outcome is only guaranteed to fundamentally change the state of affairs.
You can also consider "reshape", "transform".
Caveat: I am not a native speaker of English.
-------------------------------------------------- Note added at 1 hr (2008-06-17 05:29:33 GMT) --------------------------------------------------
Besides, I think talking about "表面" and "内面" in a business buzzword filled text is a little over the top.
-------------------------------------------------- Note added at 5 hrs (2008-06-17 09:26:54 GMT) --------------------------------------------------
Stop paying for being checked and stop taking trials.
Start taking real jobs, do that for the "fun" first (while respecting deadlines etc) and then, when you start being confident _not_ on your linguistic ability but on your ability to make enough income to sustain yourself then start being pickiy with the rates and select the jobs that are the less painfull. That may take some time though ! :)
You need good dictionaries. The "reshape" suggestion was taken from the ビジネス技術実用英語大辞典.
-------------------------------------------------- Note added at 2 days29 mins (2008-06-19 04:10:28 GMT) Post-grading --------------------------------------------------
Anything that is available in the EPWING format. You can save the files on your computer and search them with a dedicated dictionary soft that accepts multiple dictionaries. Kotonoko on OSX is what I use.
Example sentence(s):
[things] are reshaping the way [things are done]
Jean-Christophe Helary Japan Local time: 13:16 Native speaker of: French PRO pts in category: 4