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「文法は嫌です」。

English translation: "I hate grammar."

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GLOSSARY ENTRY (DERIVED FROM QUESTION BELOW)
Japanese term or phrase:「文法は嫌です」。
English translation:"I hate grammar."
Entered by: Shinya Ono
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07:02 Jul 2, 2002
Japanese to English translations [PRO]
Art/Literary - Linguistics / grammar
Japanese term or phrase: 「文法は嫌です」。
With this example, could someone explain the most accepted way of using comma and period, on on hand, and quotation mark, on the other, in American usage. I always thought the period comes before the quotation mark, but WORD disagrees apparently.
Shinya Ono
United States
Local time: 21:46
"I hate grammar."
Explanation:
Assuming this is the whole sentence, this is the accepted form in both American and British usage, so WORD should not have had a problem.

American style (according to the Chicago style manual) is to ALWAYS put periods and commas inside quotation marks, whereas British style is to put them inside if they belong to what's inside the quotes, outside if they belong to the sentence as a whole. In this case, the period goes with what's inside the quotes.

An example of a sentence where U.S. and British styles would differ is:
U.S.: He sang a song called "I Hate Grammar."
UK: He sang a song called "I Hate Grammar".
Selected response from:

John Senior
Local time: 21:46
Grading comment
Your response was well-balanced, with a concise explanation of British as well as U.S. styles, which is important when so much seems to be run by the U.S. (Even for a Japanese-American.) Now, I can try to use the British rule in documents intended for Singapore, etc. To Philip, Hamo and Yosh: I understand that there is a controversy about it even in the U.S., and so, someday, I would like to know the basic outlines of it, and what rules Word editiing software is following. Maybe I will just ask them. Thank you all, again.
Shinya
(Honorifics omitted)
4 KudoZ points were awarded for this answer

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Summary of answers provided
4 +2"I hate grammar."John Senior
4There are rules, but there is no court of law.
R. A. Stegemann
4Always inside.Pro-Japanese
4"I hate grammar."
Philip Soldini


Discussion entries: 1





  

Answers


3 mins   confidence: Answerer confidence 4/5Answerer confidence 4/5
"I hate grammar."


Explanation:
I don't know why Word disagrees, but the period should always come before the quotation marks.
Examples:
Mr. On said, "I hate grammar."
"I hate grammar," sighed Mr. Ono.


    B.A. in English Education
Philip Soldini
Local time: 21:46
Native speaker of: Native in EnglishEnglish
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9 mins   confidence: Answerer confidence 4/5Answerer confidence 4/5
Always inside.


Explanation:
According to the Chicago Style Manual, commas and periods are always placed inside of the quotation marks.

Here are the excerpts:

173. The period is placed inside the quotation marks. Put it inside the
parentheses or brackets when the matter inclosed is an independent sentence
forming no part of the preceding sentence; otherwise, outside (see 166):

Tennyson's "In Memoriam."
Put the period inside the quotation marks. (This is a rule without exception.)
When the parentheses form a part of the preceding sentence, put the period
outside (as, for instance, here).

213. The comma is always placed inside the quotation marks, but it follows the
parenthesis if the context requires it at all (see 166):

See the sections on "Quotations," which may be found elsewhere in this volume.

Here he gives a belated, though stilted (and somewhat obscure), exposition of
the subject.



Pro-Japanese
Canada
Local time: 06:46
Native speaker of: English
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17 mins   confidence: Answerer confidence 4/5Answerer confidence 4/5 peer agreement (net): +2
"I hate grammar."


Explanation:
Assuming this is the whole sentence, this is the accepted form in both American and British usage, so WORD should not have had a problem.

American style (according to the Chicago style manual) is to ALWAYS put periods and commas inside quotation marks, whereas British style is to put them inside if they belong to what's inside the quotes, outside if they belong to the sentence as a whole. In this case, the period goes with what's inside the quotes.

An example of a sentence where U.S. and British styles would differ is:
U.S.: He sang a song called "I Hate Grammar."
UK: He sang a song called "I Hate Grammar".

John Senior
Local time: 21:46
Native speaker of: Native in EnglishEnglish
PRO pts in category: 4
Grading comment
Your response was well-balanced, with a concise explanation of British as well as U.S. styles, which is important when so much seems to be run by the U.S. (Even for a Japanese-American.) Now, I can try to use the British rule in documents intended for Singapore, etc. To Philip, Hamo and Yosh: I understand that there is a controversy about it even in the U.S., and so, someday, I would like to know the basic outlines of it, and what rules Word editiing software is following. Maybe I will just ask them. Thank you all, again.
Shinya
(Honorifics omitted)

Peer comments on this answer (and responses from the answerer)
agree  R. A. Stegemann: Hey, I must be part British!
1 hr

agree  xxxNorina
2 hrs
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1 hr   confidence: Answerer confidence 4/5Answerer confidence 4/5
There are rules, but there is no court of law.


Explanation:
1)"I hate grammar", said Mr. Ohno.

2) Mr. Ohno said "I hate grammar".

3) In a passage written by Mr. Ohno the following phrase was found: "I hate grammar".

Explanation: In all of the above three sentences Mr. Ohno's statement is an element of a larger sentence, whose punctuation takes precedence over that of Mr. Ohno's statement.

This is the rule that I use, and there are very few cases, where it cannot be applied with the utmost rigour.

It goes against all the rules I ever learned in school, but after five languages it is the only one that makes sense to me.

You are welcome to use it, but just do not argue with editors when they say change it, because editors are like self-appointed judges in an unofficial court of law; they are above prosecution over cases which they themselves are adjudicating.

Then too, in the Anglophonic world there is always the jury, and this is what ProZ is all about. As a result, I haven't a chance of winning this case, because most everyone has probably been brought up under the same system of jurisprudence.

Very truly yours,

Hamo



R. A. Stegemann
Saudi Arabia
Local time: 21:46
Specializes in field
Native speaker of: Native in EnglishEnglish
PRO pts in category: 4
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