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奥が深い

English translation: requires extensive and never-ending learning

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01:55 Apr 28, 2008
Japanese to English translations [PRO]
Tech/Engineering - Manufacturing / QC Training
Japanese term or phrase: 奥が深い
「品質知識は奥が深い・・・・・・・・」というフレーズが出てきたのですが、
ピッタリくる表現が思いつきません。(忠実に訳出する必要があるかどうかは措いておいて)

何か良い表現がありしたら、ご教示お願い致します。

奥が深い・・・については、以下のようなページを見つけました。
http://osaka.yomiuri.co.jp/kotoba/co51101a.htm
Leochan
Local time: 13:31
English translation:requires extensive and never-ending learning
Explanation:
Asker's noteの他の項目も含めて、言語知識の習得や知識習得全般にもあてはまると感じました。ここでの"奥が深い"の訳については、得るべき知識の多様性・広範囲性という点や、「習得はこれで十分、ここで終わり」ということがないという点に注目できると思います。

筆者の長年の経験をふまえ、「品質知識習得に完成なし」という言葉なのだと解釈しました。
Selected response from:

Aogara
United Kingdom
Local time: 05:31
Grading comment
ありがとうございました!
4 KudoZ points were awarded for this answer

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Summary of answers provided
4 +2A deep subject
Benjamin Wood
3 +2elaborate, much involved, complex, multifaceted
Troy Fowler
3 +2Knowledge is endless /has no end.
RieM
4 +1requires extensive and never-ending learning
Aogara
4 +1The more you learn, the less you know.
humbird
4Very much involved
Hari Damle
4deep /profound
Dr. Eleonora Fejes
2need wider knowledge and deeper experience
cinefil
2incredibly / unexpectedly vast
Angel Yamada
3 -2Nothing is perfect ...
Yuki Okada
1has depth/is not simple child's play
Maynard Hogg


Discussion entries: 5





  

Answers


27 mins   confidence: Answerer confidence 3/5Answerer confidence 3/5 peer agreement (net): +2
elaborate, much involved, complex, multifaceted


Explanation:
これは便利な表現ですね。日常会話で良く使っていますが、確かに英語ですとそのまま該当するフレーズが浮かんで来ないです。

今回の『品質知識は奥が深い』を英訳してみると、下記の様になると思われます。

1) Knowledge about quality is rather elaborate.
2) Knowledge about quality is quite involved.
3) Knowledge about quality is rather complex.
4) Knowledge about quality is rather multifaceted.

1~3にすると、『奥が深い』に含まれる『複雑である』という意味合いが伝われますが、『多面的』や『多層的』というニュアンスを強調したいであれば、4番をお勧めいたします。

Hope this helps.

Troy Fowler
United States
Local time: 21:31
Works in field
Native speaker of: Native in EnglishEnglish
PRO pts in category: 28

Peer comments on this answer (and responses from the answerer)
neutral  Benjamin Wood: I'm not sure where the "quite" and "rather" are coming from, though! "...is a complex subject" would probably read / translate better.
24 mins

agree  AniseK
3 hrs

agree  Duncan Adam: I think 'complex' is the best word here
4 hrs
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30 mins   confidence: Answerer confidence 3/5Answerer confidence 3/5 peer agreement (net): -2
Nothing is perfect ...


Explanation:
Nothing is perfect when it comes to quality control (knowledge)

きっといろいろな可能性があると思いますが、ぱっと頭に浮かんだのはこれです。いくら品質(管理)の知識を増やしてもこれでもう大丈夫、ということはない、ということでしょうか。泥臭い仕事だと思いますが、「はまってしまう」物なのかも知れませんねえ。

Yuki Okada
Canada
Local time: 21:31
Works in field
Native speaker of: Native in JapaneseJapanese
PRO pts in category: 34

Peer comments on this answer (and responses from the answerer)
disagree  Benjamin Wood: This gives totally the wrong impression, making it sound like a negative comment. Along these lines "There is always more to learn about quality control" would be much better
20 mins

disagree  Maynard Hogg: I second Benjamin's response.
11 hrs

neutral  humbird: Benjaminに賛成です。少し行過ぎましたと思います。
14 hrs
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37 mins   confidence: Answerer confidence 2/5Answerer confidence 2/5
incredibly / unexpectedly vast


Explanation:
incredibly / unexpectedly vast

Angel Yamada
Local time: 01:31
Specializes in field
Native speaker of: Spanish
PRO pts in category: 8
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49 mins   confidence: Answerer confidence 4/5Answerer confidence 4/5 peer agreement (net): +2
A deep subject


Explanation:
Well, how about something that is possible in English and also takes its hint from the Japanese?

"Knowledge about quality is a very deep subject."

I wouldn't say that it could be translated this way in every single instance the phrase can be used in Japanese, (i.e. in the your sample page, although that is really a bit of a humor anyway) but it may fit in this instance. With a bit more context I would love to do something with "knowledge about quality" too, but that isn't the point here is it!

--------------------------------------------------
Note added at 1 hr (2008-04-28 03:04:55 GMT)
--------------------------------------------------

In light of your notes, and as a looking back over so many years, I might also suggest my note from up there -

"There is always more to learn about quality control"

It certainly isn't literal but I think it covers the meaning here, in this context, quite well.

Benjamin Wood
Local time: 13:31
Native speaker of: Native in EnglishEnglish

Peer comments on this answer (and responses from the answerer)
agree  Nobuo Kameyama: I guess the retired man might work for the money he needed to support his family at first but eventually he began to look at his job as a way of life, "品管道." That reminds me of Mr. Michihiro Matsumoto's "英語道."
1 hr

agree  Keijiroh Yama-Guchi: 難しい訳ながら、直訳がぴたっとくる例ですね。でも下記のno endもなかなか捨てがたい訳です。
9 hrs
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2 hrs   confidence: Answerer confidence 3/5Answerer confidence 3/5 peer agreement (net): +2
Knowledge is endless /has no end.


Explanation:
直訳ではありませんが、「奥が深い」には、知識そのものについて(決してすべてを完璧に習得することなどあり得ない)、と、QAとして知識に対する習得欲 (thirst for knowledge)とか、またはそれを習得する方法についても、尽きることがない、これをこの方法で押さえれば終わり、というものではない、という意味まで含まれているような気がします。Yukiさんのいう「完璧」の感覚は、私にはよくわかります。

これって、「品質知識」の代わりに、別の言葉でも結構いけますよ。「外国語の知識」とか、「料理」とか....

RieM
United States
Local time: 00:31
Specializes in field
Native speaker of: Japanese
PRO pts in category: 10

Peer comments on this answer (and responses from the answerer)
agree  Keijiroh Yama-Guchi: 上記のdeepにするか、no endか、どちらに軍配を上げるか難しいですね。
7 hrs

agree  humbird: いいですね(スマイルフェース)
12 hrs
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2 hrs   confidence: Answerer confidence 2/5Answerer confidence 2/5
need wider knowledge and deeper experience


Explanation:
意訳です。

cinefil
Japan
Local time: 13:31
Native speaker of: Native in JapaneseJapanese
PRO pts in category: 160

Peer comments on this answer (and responses from the answerer)
neutral  Maynard Hogg: This rings best of the answers so far, but is too long and involved.
8 hrs
  -> Yes, too long.
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8 hrs   confidence: Answerer confidence 4/5Answerer confidence 4/5
Very much involved


Explanation:
「その分野の知識を得れば得るほど、まだ得ていない知識がもっとたくさんあるということが明らかになる」ほど深い
英語でいうと、 The subject is so involved that acquiring more and more knowledge of the subject reveals that there is still a lot to be acquired

Hari Damle
India
Local time: 10:01
Specializes in field
Native speaker of: Native in EnglishEnglish
PRO pts in category: 8
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11 hrs   confidence: Answerer confidence 4/5Answerer confidence 4/5 peer agreement (net): +1
requires extensive and never-ending learning


Explanation:
Asker's noteの他の項目も含めて、言語知識の習得や知識習得全般にもあてはまると感じました。ここでの"奥が深い"の訳については、得るべき知識の多様性・広範囲性という点や、「習得はこれで十分、ここで終わり」ということがないという点に注目できると思います。

筆者の長年の経験をふまえ、「品質知識習得に完成なし」という言葉なのだと解釈しました。

Aogara
United Kingdom
Local time: 05:31
Specializes in field
Native speaker of: Japanese
PRO pts in category: 12
Grading comment
ありがとうございました!

Peer comments on this answer (and responses from the answerer)
agree  humbird: Due to asker's additional info. this could be more "international".
1 day11 hrs
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11 hrs   confidence: Answerer confidence 1/5Answerer confidence 1/5
は奥が深い
has depth/is not simple child's play


Explanation:
cf. 象は鼻が長い = "The elephant has a long nose." or "Elephants have long noses."

The "nothing is perfect" non-starter reminded me of a different tack, negation: is not simple, is not child's play, is not a cake walk, is not a sleepwalking exercise, etc.

Maynard Hogg
Japan
Local time: 13:31
Native speaker of: Native in EnglishEnglish
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15 hrs   confidence: Answerer confidence 4/5Answerer confidence 4/5 peer agreement (net): +1
The more you learn, the less you know.


Explanation:
版画の巨匠、葛飾北斎は80才で、自分がいかに絵について知らないかと嘆いたそうです。
定年退職まで品質管理にこの道一筋、そういう、日本的な「道」の精神のようですね。
そしたらこういう表現になりました。

--------------------------------------------------
Note added at 15 hrs (2008-04-28 17:06:01 GMT)
--------------------------------------------------

「学べば学ぶほど、知らないことばかりだ」
そういう謙遜の精神は欧米文化にはあまりありません。
でもこういう言い方だと、彼らにはなんとなくわかるようです。

humbird
Native speaker of: Native in JapaneseJapanese, Native in EnglishEnglish
PRO pts in category: 8

Peer comments on this answer (and responses from the answerer)
agree  Nobuo Kameyama: 今朝起きてみたら11件もの投稿があってびっくり。昨日まではBenjaminさんやRieさんのが良いと思ったけど、今ではhumbirdさんのが一番良いと思う。ただ、葛飾北斎にしても「謙遜の精神」で上記のように語ったのではなく、本当に絵の道は底知れぬと実感したからこそ出た言葉だったのだと思います。我が家は大東流合気柔術一家ですが、佐川幸義という希代の達人は90歳を過ぎてもなお、日々合気術に新しい発見をされていました。合気の道も、まさに日暮れて道遠しです。
3 hrs
  -> Thank you for your extensive comment.
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17 hrs   confidence: Answerer confidence 4/5Answerer confidence 4/5
deep /profound


Explanation:
In case of knowledge "profound" is definitely a good adjective, when its about quality meaningful would be better, but in general deep/profound

Dr. Eleonora Fejes
Local time: 00:31
Works in field
Native speaker of: Native in HungarianHungarian
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