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Dead Composers

English translation: halting speech

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14:11 Jun 30, 2004
Japanese to English translations [PRO]
Art/Literary - Music / Classical Music
Japanese term or phrase: Dead Composers
This is part of a script scenario in which dead composers are miraculously brought to a present day orchestral concert. In this scene Johannes Brahms and Beethoven are interacting. Brahms storms out of the concert hall upon hearing that a Richard Wagner overture is going to be played. Before leaving he briefly mentions that he fears Wagner too will appear in the hall. (In real life Brahms and Wagner were rivals of sorts.)

Beethoven is left speculating why Brahms has stormed out. Beethoven's speech omits some key words and I can't get the exact meaning of his lines. Beethoven has mentioned before how much he appreciates the chance to hear "future music" that was composed after his own death. (Brahms and Wagner both worked after Beethoven's death.)

Beethoven: …彼が、あれほど嫌う作曲家の作品となると…しかし…聴いてみない事には……折角未来の音楽が聴けるのだからなぁ…
Anchoy
United States
Local time: 02:53
English translation:halting speech
Explanation:
I'm not so sure that anything is missing other than something such as "I say!" or "It's beyond me". Is Beethoven speaking in a hushed voice to avoid disturbing others in the audience?

Asahi Press's "Japanese-English Sentence Equivalents" lists the following under 折角 (sekkaku):
折角のチャンスだから (sekkaku no chansu dakara)...
I have no idea when another opportunity like this will come up again, so...

My rendition of the text would be:
Even if it is the work of a composer he so hates ... nevertheless ... to not even try listening ... when who knows when we'll be able to hear music of the future again ...
Selected response from:

xxxYakugo
Grading comment
Thanks.
4 KudoZ points were awarded for this answer

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Summary of answers provided
4 +2my renditionxxxjsl
4 +1see explanation below
Terence Gallagher
4 +1halting speechxxxYakugo
4you are right!Minoru Kuwahara
4Asker's idea is right
Katalin Horváth McClure


Discussion entries: 1





  

Answers


39 mins   confidence: Answerer confidence 4/5Answerer confidence 4/5 peer agreement (net): +1
see explanation below


Explanation:
I think you're not far off. We're dealing with sentence fragments here, and it's a question of filling in the blanks. From your attempt, I'm not really sure what your question is.
"So when it comes to works by a composer he hates, he ... (just leaves) But, if he doesn't even bother to listen (how can he know he won't like it? How can he pass up this chance?) I mean, we're being given the opportunity to hear the music of the future!"

Terence Gallagher
United States
Local time: 03:53
Native speaker of: Native in EnglishEnglish

Peer comments on this answer (and responses from the answerer)
agree  Katalin Horváth McClure: Yes, something like this. Same idea as asker's.
4 hrs
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43 mins   confidence: Answerer confidence 4/5Answerer confidence 4/5 peer agreement (net): +2
my rendition


Explanation:
What an interesting script!

In my rendition, omitted parts will be something like:

彼が、あれほど嫌う作曲家の作品となると[ワーグナーの音楽はかなりひどいものなのであろう]。しかし…聴いてみない事には[本当にワーグナーの音楽がひどいかどうか判断はできない]。折角未来の音楽が聴けるのだからなぁ。

(Wanger's composition may be awful), considering that Brahms hates his music that much. Howver, I will not be able to judge whether or not his music is really bad, (unless I listen to his music). I don't want to miss a rare opportunity to hear the music of the future.

In the history of classical music, both Brahms and Wagner are composers of the Romantic Period (whereas Beethoven belongs to the Classical Period). However, their music makings are completely different. Brahms used the similar instrumentation to Beethoven's: pair of wood wind instruments, 4 horns, 2 trumpets, 3 trombones (though Beethoven used trombones in his 6th and 9th symphonies only) plus strings. The only only difference is the use of a tuba. On the other hand, Wagner used more force in the brass section: he used Wagner tubas and doubled the number of horns and wood wind instruments in some of his music. Also, he composed a lot of operas, which Brahms never composed. So, Beethoven wanted to hear Wagner's music since it was new in style and used a larger instrumentation than his.


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Note added at 2004-06-30 21:16:29 (GMT)
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For the relationship between Brahms and Wagner (in Japanese):

http://www.kk.iij4u.or.jp/‾takuya/bra4.html
http://orchestra.musicinfo.co.jp/‾kcpo/legacy/31st/Brahms/brahms0.html


xxxjsl
Local time: 16:53
PRO pts in category: 4

Peer comments on this answer (and responses from the answerer)
agree  miyot: 省略されている部分が正しく補われていると思います。2番目の文の主語がベートーベンだという解釈は、合ってると思います。ブラームスはワーグナーの音楽を聴いたことがあると思いますから。ちなみに、英文の2番目の文は、英文に対応させてかっこをつける位置が反対にした
2 hrs
  -> Thanks a lot!

neutral  Katalin Horváth McClure: I think you assume too much about hidden implications. I don't think Beethoven would make an opinion about Wagner's music based on Brahms' behaviour. I don't think he is talking about himself in the second and third sentences, it's still about Brahms.
4 hrs
  -> I simply assume that you don't know the hidden implications, i.e., Brahms' longing for, yet resistance against, Wagner's music. Brahms's music was still "classic" in the Romantic Period, and this is a known fact that you will learn in music history.

agree  meehan: Basically, I would agree. And being a classical music buff, I also would disagree with Ms McClure on a similar basis.
13 hrs
  -> Thanks for your valuable opinion.
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1 hr   confidence: Answerer confidence 4/5Answerer confidence 4/5 peer agreement (net): +1
halting speech


Explanation:
I'm not so sure that anything is missing other than something such as "I say!" or "It's beyond me". Is Beethoven speaking in a hushed voice to avoid disturbing others in the audience?

Asahi Press's "Japanese-English Sentence Equivalents" lists the following under 折角 (sekkaku):
折角のチャンスだから (sekkaku no chansu dakara)...
I have no idea when another opportunity like this will come up again, so...

My rendition of the text would be:
Even if it is the work of a composer he so hates ... nevertheless ... to not even try listening ... when who knows when we'll be able to hear music of the future again ...

xxxYakugo
PRO pts in category: 8
Grading comment
Thanks.

Peer comments on this answer (and responses from the answerer)
agree  Katalin Horváth McClure: I think this is right, there isn't much missing, the asker's original rendition is pretty good.
3 hrs
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5 hrs   confidence: Answerer confidence 4/5Answerer confidence 4/5
Asker's idea is right


Explanation:
Anchoy, I think you got it right. Beethoven is simply expressing his disbelief over Brahms' behaviour when such a great chance is presented to them.
I think this is it, nothing more, Beethoven is not judging or implying any opinion about Wagner's work in any way in these sentences.

Katalin Horváth McClure
United States
Local time: 03:53
Native speaker of: Native in HungarianHungarian
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3 days3 hrs   confidence: Answerer confidence 4/5Answerer confidence 4/5
you are right!


Explanation:
Firstly let’s not lead this to such a serious discussion, but the entire tune of this material probably tends to be more comical than purely educational, giving factual backgrounds of the western music. These famous composers look like taking a role of guide to the world of classical music as comedian-like characters with exchanging jokes.

I suppose the asker, Anthony’s proposition has no problem in interpreting this ‘comically-characterized’ Beethoven’s monologue, except that I may suggest the subject “we” may be replaced by “I” which in this case refers to Beethoven himself.

Taking other answerers’ comments into consideration, my attempt is:

Beethoven: …彼が、あれほど嫌う作曲家の作品となると(聴く価値はあるかなぁ)…しかし…聴いてみない事には(その価値は分からないだろうなぁ)……折角未来の音楽が聴けるのだからなぁ(聴いてみようかなぁ)…

(I wonder if it’s worth listening…) (never know if it really is…) (why not listening…)

Minoru Kuwahara
Japan
Local time: 16:53
Specializes in field
Native speaker of: Japanese
PRO pts in category: 4
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