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irradiate a beam?

English translation: project/emit/shine/focus/etc. a beam

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GLOSSARY ENTRY (DERIVED FROM QUESTION BELOW)
Japanese term or phrase:ビームを照射する
English translation:project/emit/shine/focus/etc. a beam
Entered by: Krzysztof Łesyk
Options:
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02:19 Mar 31, 2008
Japanese to English translations [PRO]
Tech/Engineering - Patents / Patents
Japanese term or phrase: irradiate a beam?
The phrase "ビームを照射する" is frequently encountered in Japanese Patent applications. Many Japanese J-to-E patent translators, including myself, are tempted to use the verb "irradiate" as a transitive verb that takes an object noun "beam," so the translated sentence will look like "the laser beam was irradiated onto the surface." But grammatically it seems that the object of the transitive verb "irradiate" should always be an object (or a surface) to which the light beam is directed, but not the light beam itself. Is it technically acceptable to say "irradiate a laser beam on (something)"? The same argument also applies to the use of transitive verbs "coat" and "fill." In Japanese, it is ok to say "paint をsurfaceに塗布(coat)する" and "liquid をcontainer に充填(fill)する," which often end up being translated as "paint is coated on the surface" and "liquid is filled in a container" since "を" indicates that the word that precedes it is the direct object of the verb. Are these uses of the verbs technically or grammatically acceptable or not? As I believe there are no Japanese patent translators who have never been stuck with this transitive verb issue, any comments or advices will be greatly appreciated. Thanks!
Kazuhiko
Local time: 19:44
project, emit, shine, focus, etc. (see explanation)
Explanation:
I guess casey's right - the answer will look better when it's all in one place, instead of being broken into multiple fragments.

With regard to the beam, I'm no patent translator, but I'd probably use words like "project", "emit", "shine" or even "focus" (as in "focus a beam on...").

For paint, you can always coat a surface _with_ it or alternatively _apply_ paint to a surface. It seems patent translations sometimes have to follow the grammar very strictly (to the point of changing passive voice to active or vice versa not being permitted), so of course everything depends on the context (then again, what doesn't in our job?).

The strict requirements make the last case you speak of difficult - there's not much wiggle room with verbs you can use for liquids - form the top of my head, there's "pour" (this is probably the most natural sounding one), you could also use "transport", "transfer", even "place" (as in "the liquid is placed in the container"), depending on the context. That is of course if the most succinct and naturally sounding "the container is filled with the liquid" is not permitted.

Anyway, as a non-native speaker of English I sometimes struggle to find the best word for a particular context. What helps me then is a collection of English corpora available here: http://corpus.byu.edu/ They basically work like a (very large) collocations dictionary, they just have more search options - you can specify which part of speech in which position relative to a word you want to search for. For example, to search for verbs that go with "beam" you'd use a search phrase "[v*] a beam" (without the quotes), you could even narrow it down further to only include verbs in present tense, etc.

That's about it - brevity was never my strong point, but I hope this helps :)

P.S. The reference link explains the search syntax in more detail

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Note added at 20 hrs (2008-03-31 22:20:36 GMT)
--------------------------------------------------

As a side note: there's also a free (with some limitations) Japanese corpus online, and while it seems a bit smaller than the English ones above and the search options are also advanced, it has its uses: http://www.kotonoha.gr.jp/cgi-bin/search_form.cgi?viaTopPage...

--------------------------------------------------
Note added at 20 hrs (2008-03-31 23:17:31 GMT) Post-grading
--------------------------------------------------

Thank you. I edited the glossary entry so it's in correct J->E format and will come up correctly when searching.
Selected response from:

Krzysztof Łesyk
Japan
Local time: 19:44
Grading comment
Thank you Krzysztof Łesyk
for your advice. It really helped and I now feel confident about the usage of the words.
4 KudoZ points were awarded for this answer

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Summary of answers provided
3 +3project, emit, shine, focus, etc. (see explanation)Krzysztof Łesyk
5agree
yumom
4aim a beam
Ruth Sato
3focus a beamV N Ganesh


Discussion entries: 6





  

Answers


34 mins   confidence: Answerer confidence 4/5Answerer confidence 4/5
aim a beam


Explanation:
I know that "aim" sounds simple, but sometimes simple is best. I think that it catches the nuance of 照射する well. I wouldn't use "irradiate" as it doesn't sound so natural here. So, "aim" is my suggestion. Good luck!

Ruth Sato
United States
Local time: 06:44
Native speaker of: English
PRO pts in category: 60
Notes to answerer
Asker: "Aim" sounds correct and better than to use "irradiate," indeed.

Asker: Thanks for a helpful advice!

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26 mins   confidence: Answerer confidence 5/5
agree


Explanation:
これまで、米国、欧州出願明細書の和訳を多数行ってきた中で、irradiate, coat, fillなど能動態で記載されたものは見たことがありません。厳密には文法的にもおかしいと思います。照射する、満たすといった行為は、人の行為であって、機械がするのではないのですから。正確には、機械に人がさせる、ということになるので、受動態で記載するのが正しくて、そこには登場しませんが、実際には人が操作している、ということになると思います。これまで言及されていなかったのは、日本語の性質としてその点が気づきにくいからではないでしょうか?日本語は主語が略されているため、「ビームを照射する」が何によるものかがわかりにくいのです。私も、英訳する場合、主語を何にするか、つまり、行為者が何で対象が何かを見極めるのに苦労します。「ビームを照射する」も、contextから「何を用いて(by, with)」を想像するしかありません。原文の日本語が悪くて発明の内容が不明瞭、ということは良くあります。かといって書かれている以上を翻訳して記載すると原文と不一致ということに成りかねないので難しいですね。

--------------------------------------------------
Note added at 1 hr (2008-03-31 03:30:09 GMT)
--------------------------------------------------

文法的に不安であれば、名詞にするという手もあります。英語は名詞的な言い回しが多いので、例えば、"The irradiation of the laser beam was applied (provided) onto the surface."など。。。このような言い回しもよくネイティブの書く明細書で見られます。ただ、ネイティブといっても、発明者、技術者でない弁理士が書いているので、技術的におかしな場合も多々あります。いろんなクライアントがいらっしゃいますから、理不尽なクレームには苦労しますよね。先日も発明は請求項ごとにとらえる、ということがわかっていただけなくて、「なぜ発明が複数あるんだ」と言われたこともありました。

--------------------------------------------------
Note added at 1 hr (2008-03-31 03:36:14 GMT)
--------------------------------------------------

ちなみに、"liquid is filled in container"はおかしいです。この場合"the container is filled with the liquid"になりますよねぇ…。

yumom
Local time: 19:44
Works in field
Native speaker of: Native in JapaneseJapanese
PRO pts in category: 32
Notes to answerer
Asker: yumomさま、アドバイスありがとうございます。結局問題は「直訳」の捕らえ方だと思うんです。お客様によっては「照射」=「irradiate」、「充填」=「fill」のような公式があって、用法的に誤用である。(英語では他動詞として光線を目的語にできない)。ということを納得していただけないことがしばしばあるんですよね。でもここで回答をいただいてやはりネイティブがおかしいというのであればこうした表記をおかしい、とおもいつつ使うのは止めようと思いました。ありがとうございました。

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56 mins   confidence: Answerer confidence 3/5Answerer confidence 3/5
focus a beam


Explanation:
used to focus the laser beam onto the target surface. The. burn marks obtained were approximately 0.5 mm in diam-. eter, and were separated by 0.75 mm. ...
www.iop.org/EJ/article/1402-4896/1998/T75/075/physscr8_T75_...

For the material processing, it is necessary in almost all cases to focus the laser beam onto the surface to be processed. With simple lens systems this ...
www.meos.com/Photonics experiments finished pages/laser sca... - 36k


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Note added at 1 hr (2008-03-31 03:38:41 GMT)
--------------------------------------------------

"direct" is another option.

... the medium for rotation about an axis and a head (6,7) mounted for movement parallel to the axis including means to direct a laser beam onto the surface ...
www.wipo.int/pctdb/en/wo.jsp?IA=WO1992/09399&WO=1992/09399&... - 18k -


--------------------------------------------------
Note added at 1 hr (2008-03-31 03:40:08 GMT)
--------------------------------------------------

This is accomplished by directing the laser beam onto a point on the surface of the workpiece. The laser beam is typically directed onto the workpiece at an ...
www.freepatentsonline.com/5173583.html - 28k


V N Ganesh
Local time: 16:14
Native speaker of: English
PRO pts in category: 36
Notes to answerer
Asker: "focus" is another right choice, I think. But definitely not "irradiate." Thanks for your suggestion!


Peer comments on this answer (and responses from the answerer)
agree  roonchan: I would go more with "direct a laser beam" myself...
10 hrs
  -> Thank You!

disagree  Maynard Hogg: Focus is too specific. Patents require equal vagueness in both languages.
7 days
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4 hrs   confidence: Answerer confidence 3/5Answerer confidence 3/5 peer agreement (net): +3
project, emit, shine, focus, etc. (see explanation)


Explanation:
I guess casey's right - the answer will look better when it's all in one place, instead of being broken into multiple fragments.

With regard to the beam, I'm no patent translator, but I'd probably use words like "project", "emit", "shine" or even "focus" (as in "focus a beam on...").

For paint, you can always coat a surface _with_ it or alternatively _apply_ paint to a surface. It seems patent translations sometimes have to follow the grammar very strictly (to the point of changing passive voice to active or vice versa not being permitted), so of course everything depends on the context (then again, what doesn't in our job?).

The strict requirements make the last case you speak of difficult - there's not much wiggle room with verbs you can use for liquids - form the top of my head, there's "pour" (this is probably the most natural sounding one), you could also use "transport", "transfer", even "place" (as in "the liquid is placed in the container"), depending on the context. That is of course if the most succinct and naturally sounding "the container is filled with the liquid" is not permitted.

Anyway, as a non-native speaker of English I sometimes struggle to find the best word for a particular context. What helps me then is a collection of English corpora available here: http://corpus.byu.edu/ They basically work like a (very large) collocations dictionary, they just have more search options - you can specify which part of speech in which position relative to a word you want to search for. For example, to search for verbs that go with "beam" you'd use a search phrase "[v*] a beam" (without the quotes), you could even narrow it down further to only include verbs in present tense, etc.

That's about it - brevity was never my strong point, but I hope this helps :)

P.S. The reference link explains the search syntax in more detail

--------------------------------------------------
Note added at 20 hrs (2008-03-31 22:20:36 GMT)
--------------------------------------------------

As a side note: there's also a free (with some limitations) Japanese corpus online, and while it seems a bit smaller than the English ones above and the search options are also advanced, it has its uses: http://www.kotonoha.gr.jp/cgi-bin/search_form.cgi?viaTopPage...

--------------------------------------------------
Note added at 20 hrs (2008-03-31 23:17:31 GMT) Post-grading
--------------------------------------------------

Thank you. I edited the glossary entry so it's in correct J->E format and will come up correctly when searching.


    Reference: http://corpus.byu.edu/bnc/help/syntax_e.asp
Krzysztof Łesyk
Japan
Local time: 19:44
Native speaker of: Native in PolishPolish
PRO pts in category: 12
Grading comment
Thank you Krzysztof Łesyk
for your advice. It really helped and I now feel confident about the usage of the words.

Peer comments on this answer (and responses from the answerer)
agree  KathyT: you get my vote, too :-)
6 mins
  -> Why thank you ^_^

agree  casey
40 mins
  -> Why thank you too ^^

agree  Maynard Hogg: Shine is just fine; focus, too specific.
7 days
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Changes made by editors
Mar 31, 2008 - Changes made by Krzysztof Łesyk:
Edited KOG entry<a href="/profile/820066">Kazuhiko's</a> old entry - "irradiate a beam?" » "project, emit, shine, focus, etc. (see explanation)"


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