Explanation: To be honest, it makes no sense to me. It is my experience that a lot of meaningless terminology is used in martial arts.
masakatsu agatsu katsuhayabi, "true victory is victory of self; may this happen at the speed of light!"
-------------------------------------------------- Note added at 4 hrs 20 mins (2004-10-04 20:06:24 GMT) --------------------------------------------------
Oops. I pressed Enter instead of Shift, not a particularly bright move.
Nevertheless, my comment stands. A lot of so-called martial arts terminology has no meaning because the words, or the combination of words, is simply not Japanese but no more than the English version of Japlish.
-------------------------------------------------- Note added at 4 hrs 40 mins (2004-10-04 20:26:34 GMT) --------------------------------------------------
This is the Japanese way this slogan is written:
正勝吾勝勝速日
正=masa=correct/true
勝=katsu=victory
吾=a=I/self
勝=katsu=victory
勝=katsu=victory
速=haya=fast
日=hi=day
I don¥'t have time to go into details, but from my spacing, it should be clear how they arrive at the meaning. It should be clear that the ¥"meanings¥" (actually cultural equivalents rather than meanings or translations) are interpretations. There is no real way we can know that these even remotely represent the intentions of the Aikido founder.
-------------------------------------------------- Note added at 15 hrs 21 mins (2004-10-05 07:07:00 GMT) --------------------------------------------------
Your suspicions are well-founded. Japanese is a very different language and a very different culture. That means that translation as we see it in a European languages context is not really possible. Most translations from/into Japanese are not really translations at all but rather cross-cultural interpretations or ¥"cultural equivalents¥". That makes translating from/into Japanese a lot of fun, but also a very risky/shaky business, especially when translating creative language. In order to translate properly, it is always a good idea to have a thorough knowledge of the culture and the subjects the translations are about (in both languages), and this is probably nowhere more important than when translating from/into Japanese into/from a European language.
Misinterpretations are extremely common. Probably the simplest and best known example is that of Fuji-san. In many Western books one will find the explanation that the Japanese revere Mount Fuji and that adding the honorific ¥'san¥' to Fuji is an indication of that. However, if one knows how it is written, one understand that ¥'san¥' does not stand for ¥'Mr.¥' or something like that, but simply for ¥'mountain¥'. Therefore Fuji san means nothing more than Fuji mountain => Mount Fuji.
Translations from/into Japanese, even simple ones, should always be approached with healthy suspicions.
So, please continue. Your suspicions are a necessary step towards understanding Japanese.
Do not worry about this spelling mistake. It actually isn't. Japanese is a syllabic language and 'tsu' and 'tu' are interchangeable. It is the type of non-mistake native speakers make all the time.
Masakatsu Agatsu Katsuhayabi - this is the correct spelling. I have no idea about Japanese, I am just translating a book about aikido (into Polish, my native). The book is in English but some slogans are in Japanese, translated into English. I sometimes get an impression that the translation is poor so I want to check with proz!
Makes no sense to me. Is it an Aikido master's name?
18:29 Oct 4, 2004
Automatic update in 00:
Answers
4 hrs confidence: peer agreement (net): +1
True victory is victory of self; may this happen at the speed of light!
Explanation: To be honest, it makes no sense to me. It is my experience that a lot of meaningless terminology is used in martial arts.
masakatsu agatsu katsuhayabi, "true victory is victory of self; may this happen at the speed of light!"
-------------------------------------------------- Note added at 4 hrs 20 mins (2004-10-04 20:06:24 GMT) --------------------------------------------------
Oops. I pressed Enter instead of Shift, not a particularly bright move.
Nevertheless, my comment stands. A lot of so-called martial arts terminology has no meaning because the words, or the combination of words, is simply not Japanese but no more than the English version of Japlish.
-------------------------------------------------- Note added at 4 hrs 40 mins (2004-10-04 20:26:34 GMT) --------------------------------------------------
This is the Japanese way this slogan is written:
正勝吾勝勝速日
正=masa=correct/true
勝=katsu=victory
吾=a=I/self
勝=katsu=victory
勝=katsu=victory
速=haya=fast
日=hi=day
I don¥'t have time to go into details, but from my spacing, it should be clear how they arrive at the meaning. It should be clear that the ¥"meanings¥" (actually cultural equivalents rather than meanings or translations) are interpretations. There is no real way we can know that these even remotely represent the intentions of the Aikido founder.
-------------------------------------------------- Note added at 15 hrs 21 mins (2004-10-05 07:07:00 GMT) --------------------------------------------------
Your suspicions are well-founded. Japanese is a very different language and a very different culture. That means that translation as we see it in a European languages context is not really possible. Most translations from/into Japanese are not really translations at all but rather cross-cultural interpretations or ¥"cultural equivalents¥". That makes translating from/into Japanese a lot of fun, but also a very risky/shaky business, especially when translating creative language. In order to translate properly, it is always a good idea to have a thorough knowledge of the culture and the subjects the translations are about (in both languages), and this is probably nowhere more important than when translating from/into Japanese into/from a European language.
Misinterpretations are extremely common. Probably the simplest and best known example is that of Fuji-san. In many Western books one will find the explanation that the Japanese revere Mount Fuji and that adding the honorific ¥'san¥' to Fuji is an indication of that. However, if one knows how it is written, one understand that ¥'san¥' does not stand for ¥'Mr.¥' or something like that, but simply for ¥'mountain¥'. Therefore Fuji san means nothing more than Fuji mountain => Mount Fuji.
Translations from/into Japanese, even simple ones, should always be approached with healthy suspicions.
So, please continue. Your suspicions are a necessary step towards understanding Japanese.
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peer agreement (net): +1