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Haec poena est turpis peccati, quod nemo et nusquam adhuc ei ingestum est

English translation: v.s.

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15:09 Jul 21, 2005
Latin to English translations [PRO]
Social Sciences - History / American religious history
Latin term or phrase: Haec poena est turpis peccati, quod nemo et nusquam adhuc ei ingestum est
This is nineteenth-century American Latin (!). Context is the explanation of a terrible torture inflicted on someone undeservingly.
xxxhomuncula
English translation:v.s.
Explanation:
This punishment is for a hideous sin, which no one, no where, has been until now ever found guilty of.

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Note added at 23 mins (2005-07-21 15:33:23 GMT)
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Which means, I think, no one ever committed such a hideous crime to deserve that torture now inflicted.

--------------------------------------------------
Note added at 17 hrs 6 mins (2005-07-22 08:15:59 GMT)
--------------------------------------------------

Starting from Joseph\'s right reasoning, I think the subject of \"ingestum est\" is the whole cluster \"nemo et nusquam\", since the latter, when by itself, is commonly used with the impersonal form of the verb and in this case \"nemo\" - which is also of common gender, both masculine and neuter and feminine - might have been considered neuter by attraction. As for the missing dative, \"ei\" might have been used by anaphora to refer to \"quod\", which in its turn refers to \"peccatum\".
Still by anaphora \"ei\" could refer also to \"nemo\" and \"quod\" be so the subject of the passive.
I still hold that \"turpis\" is genitive, but it could be a genitive of quality (kind of \"this punishment is hideously sinful\") and \"quod\" could be so a conjunction and \"ei\" refer to \"poena, but \"nemo et nusquam\" would anyway be the subject of the passive \"imgestum\":
\"This punishment is hideously sinful, as no one, no where has ever been inflicted it until now\".
Either the following or previous sentence of the Latin text would probably clear the exact meaning of this given sentence.
Selected response from:

Leonardo Marcello Pignataro
Local time: 00:14
Grading comment
Yes, this is precisely the meaning, given the context! As for the grammar, it is 19th-century American Latin, after all-- one could hardly expect it to be flawless :)
Thanks very much!
4 KudoZ points were awarded for this answer

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Summary of answers provided
4 +9v.s.Leonardo Marcello Pignataro
4 +3Vide infra
Joseph Brazauskas
4 +3This penalty for this crime is infamous, because nobody, nowhere, has ever been submitted to it
irat56


  

Answers


16 mins   confidence: Answerer confidence 4/5Answerer confidence 4/5 peer agreement (net): +3
This penalty for this crime is infamous, because nobody, nowhere, has ever been submitted to it


Explanation:
Which is good for morale!

irat56
France
Local time: 00:14
Specializes in field
Native speaker of: Native in FrenchFrench
PRO pts in category: 4
Grading comment
Generally ok, but "infamous" just does not work here.

Peer comments on this answer (and responses from the answerer)
agree  Joseph Brazauskas: A bit loose, but it does convey the meaning which seems to be intended.
12 hrs
  -> Agreed! Thank you!

agree  Vicky Papaprodromou
19 hrs
  -> Merci!

agree  Maria Ferstl
1 day17 hrs
  -> Merci!
Login to enter a peer comment (or grade)
The asker has declined this answer
Comment: Generally ok, but "infamous" just does not work here.

3 hrs   confidence: Answerer confidence 4/5Answerer confidence 4/5 peer agreement (net): +3
Vide infra


Explanation:
There is something amiss grammatically. Whether one takes 'quod' as conjunction or relative pronoun, either 'nemo' or 'ingestum est' is impossible. 'Nemo' cannot be the subject of 'ingestum est'; it would have to be 'nemini' (dative of indirect object with a passive verb), in which case the sentence would mean, "This is a heinous punishment for (lit., 'of'; the genitive is objective) a sin because upon no one and nowhere has it yet been inflicted", and this I deem the likely meaning. Otherwise, one would have to conclude (if one is to keep to the rules of good Latin grammar) that 'ingestum est' is a mistake for 'ingessit', and the translation would accordingly be, "This is a heinous punishment for a sin which no one and nowhere (in better English, 'anyone anywhere') has inflicetd upon him (or 'her')".

Joseph Brazauskas
United States
Specializes in field
Native speaker of: Native in EnglishEnglish, Native in SpanishSpanish
PRO pts in category: 24

Peer comments on this answer (and responses from the answerer)
agree  Vicky Papaprodromou
5 hrs
  -> Thank you, dear Vicky.

agree  Leonardo Marcello Pignataro: vide addendum supra
13 hrs
  -> Thank you.

agree  Giusi Pasi
15 hrs
  -> Thanks, Giusi.
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19 mins   confidence: Answerer confidence 4/5Answerer confidence 4/5 peer agreement (net): +9
v.s.


Explanation:
This punishment is for a hideous sin, which no one, no where, has been until now ever found guilty of.

--------------------------------------------------
Note added at 23 mins (2005-07-21 15:33:23 GMT)
--------------------------------------------------

Which means, I think, no one ever committed such a hideous crime to deserve that torture now inflicted.

--------------------------------------------------
Note added at 17 hrs 6 mins (2005-07-22 08:15:59 GMT)
--------------------------------------------------

Starting from Joseph\'s right reasoning, I think the subject of \"ingestum est\" is the whole cluster \"nemo et nusquam\", since the latter, when by itself, is commonly used with the impersonal form of the verb and in this case \"nemo\" - which is also of common gender, both masculine and neuter and feminine - might have been considered neuter by attraction. As for the missing dative, \"ei\" might have been used by anaphora to refer to \"quod\", which in its turn refers to \"peccatum\".
Still by anaphora \"ei\" could refer also to \"nemo\" and \"quod\" be so the subject of the passive.
I still hold that \"turpis\" is genitive, but it could be a genitive of quality (kind of \"this punishment is hideously sinful\") and \"quod\" could be so a conjunction and \"ei\" refer to \"poena, but \"nemo et nusquam\" would anyway be the subject of the passive \"imgestum\":
\"This punishment is hideously sinful, as no one, no where has ever been inflicted it until now\".
Either the following or previous sentence of the Latin text would probably clear the exact meaning of this given sentence.

Leonardo Marcello Pignataro
Local time: 00:14
Specializes in field
Native speaker of: Native in ItalianItalian
PRO pts in category: 12
Grading comment
Yes, this is precisely the meaning, given the context! As for the grammar, it is 19th-century American Latin, after all-- one could hardly expect it to be flawless :)
Thanks very much!

Peer comments on this answer (and responses from the answerer)
agree  Vicky Papaprodromou
13 mins
  -> Gratias!

agree  flaviofbg
44 mins
  -> Gratias!

agree  Kieran McCann: 'turpis' in the genitive
1 hr
  -> Gratias!

agree  kaydee
4 hrs

agree  Rebecca Garber
9 hrs

agree  Joseph Brazauskas
12 hrs

agree  Stefano Asperti
14 hrs

agree  Giusi Pasi: :-)
19 hrs

agree  xxxAlfa Trans
45 days
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